Banner Advertiser

Friday, June 8, 2012

Re: [mukto-mona] ‘ঢাকার সায় ছাড়া টিপাইমুখে বাঁধ হবে না’ !!!!!

Mr. (fair-and-balanced) Q. Rahman is impressed with Chinese government's generosity even though Chinese rifles killed most of our Mukti-jodhas, while Chinese government enjoyed a long slumber during the liberation war. Now, Chinese government needs allies in this region against India. That's why their generosity is pouring over in Bangladesh as well as in Pakistan. Khaleda Zia is also in favor of establishing friendship with China and Bhutan

>>>>>>>>>> During 1971 people of this country had GREAT positive feelings towards India. Many of us still do that. HOWEVER if India chose to choke our lifelines (Our rivers) and expect love in return, I am sorry that does not even happen in fairy tales!!

You really need to get real about how we are abused by Indian policies. Do note, I did not say Indians but the state itself became a arrogant loser rather than a good friend. Why Nepalese, Sri Lankans have bad opinions of India? Because India love to poke their nose into everyone's kitchen. Unless someone is brain damaged, people do not like that.

Yes, not only China, USA also opposed us during our liberation "Jihad". Why so many of us migrated to the USA? China and many others made mistakes during that time but China have been a steadfast trusted ally of us since they recognized us during 70's. We are not Saudi Arabia with loads of money, we simple cannot effort to live on "Love letters", we need money and stuff to run this tiny country. So we improved relationship with Saudi Arabia, USA, China and many other nations. At the end of the day, we benefited for those prudent steps.

We cannot live on "Crap" India gives us every opportunity it gets!!

As I said many times, it is interest of BOTH nations to have GREAT trusting relationship BUT like an idiot India started acting like a super power much sooner. When so many millions of Indians are going hungry, when so many infant girls are being murdered every day, when a great majority of Indian population do not even want to stay within the union, India want to "Poke" us for no good reason.

We have only ONE major issue with India that is water and it cannot to stuffed under the rug for many decades to come. We need water to survive and it is a FUNDAMENTAL human rights issue. Sooner or later India will have to come to terms with us. Despite many obstacles, Bangladesh is marching forward. It is likely to keep moving forward with or without Indian support. So it is an opportunity for India to get on the boat or watch USA or China becoming our new best friend. ;-)

We'll be forever tied with India for cultural, economic and historical connections but wouldn't it be nice if we become very good partners?

Yes, it is no secret that, China is helping Pakistan for Geo-political reasons. I hope they also continue to help us building new roads, bridges, telecom projects, factories etc. WHY to heck not???

We are NOT saying Indians are not welcome, we are saying we want to be friends with all of our neighbors (Sri Lanka, Nepal, Bhutan and yes Pakistan as well).

Chinese rifles killed our Mukti-joddas. Now these same rifles help us defend our nation. Few years ago Nixon papers revealed that, Indians did not want to leave Bangladesh after 1971. It was great leadership of Sheikh Mujibur Rahman who worked with Nixon (Who opposed us during 1971) to move Indian troops out of our soil. I said it many times that, Bangabandhu was a human and he made some mistakes after 1971 but we loved this country. No one should ever doubt that.

May be we should just forget the history and current affairs. Instead, keep wondering - why India is breaking all those past promises. 

>>>>>>> because it is still run by (Bureaucrats) arrogant idiots who have issues with having good ties with a Muslim majority country. Albeit political leadership recently realized that, Indians are missing the boat with Bangladesh but the "Establishment" have their issues as well. They were passionate about breaking Pakistan but building Bangladesh was NEVER a priority to Indian establishment. History since 1971 tells us this very sad reality.

The positive part is many Indian businesses realized our potentials, so they are trying to speak to power to improve relations with us. Having permanent enmity with Pakistan never benefited either countries.

I mean if you look at the "Lack of logic" from Indians when we ask they why don't they allow our TV channels in that country, they cannot even give us an honest answer!! 

A family friend migrated to India around 71 and never returned. Last year they came back with few other friends to Bangladesh. They have visited many temples and historic places in Bangladesh. They could not believe the hospitality my family members shown them and kept calling my cousins from Delhi. I told them come to our country during "Pohela Boishak" and you will witness the biggest "Festival" of Bengalis.

I felt, they were brain washed the same way Pakistanis were brain-washed about India.

That is why I am a big cheer leader for people to people contact. I strongly feel we are much better people (As Bangladeshis) than how we are "Presented" to Indians and Pakistanis. Despite our flaws, we are friendly people and easy going people.

In fact, I do not want to see any permanent enmity with ANY nations. A strong and stable sub-continent can easily achieved if Indian and Pakistani leadership work a little harder at it.

I do realize you may not see my ideas as "Fair and Balanced" but this is my view. If you have a better idea, feel free to share.


-----Original Message-----
From: Jiten Roy <>
To: mukto-mona <>
Sent: Fri, Jun 8, 2012 5:37 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] 'ঢাকার সায় ছাড়া টিপাইমুখে বাঁধ হবে না' !!!!!

Mr. Q. Rahman raised the following issues with India: 
Border dispute
Water sharing dispute
Commerce inequality
Visa difficulty
All these accusations tell me that - India does not consider Bangladesh as a friendly country. How did that happen? That's the question I am asking, and you have not addressed that point at all.
As you know, even a pro-Indian government cannot improve relationship with India without peoples' mandate, and that is, unfortunately, not there for India. BNP/Jamat is taking political advantage of it against Awami league (AL). People are afraid of India. How did that happen? India did not create this perception. It did not occur because of those broken promises from India. Is it? It happened due to sustained brain-washing for ages. We need to address that issue before anything else. Don't you think so?
Previous experiences show that - India gains more from an anti-Indian government in power. They give away much more to please India.
The fact is - AL is pro-Indian only superficially. You conduct a poll in the country; you will find that most AL supporters are just as paranoid about India as any other anti-India political party supporters. Privately, most people think India is out to punish Bangladesh.
Mr. (fair-and-balanced) Q. Rahman is impressed with Chinese government's generosity even though Chinese rifles killed most of our Mukti-jodhas, while Chinese government enjoyed a long slumber during the liberation war. Now, Chinese government needs allies in this region against India. That's why their generosity is pouring over in Bangladesh as well as in Pakistan. Khaleda Zia is also in favor of establishing friendship with China and Bhutan.
May be we should just forget the history and current affairs. Instead, keep wondering - why India is breaking all those past promises. 
Jiten Roy 

--- On Thu, 6/7/12, qar <> wrote:

From: qar <>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] 'ঢাকার সায় ছাড়া টিপাইমুখে বাঁধ হবে না' !!!!!
Date: Thursday, June 7, 2012, 11:50 AM

Member Roy made some good points here.

At the same time there should be some standards for state level dealings. For example during Sheikh Mujibur Rahman, it was surely a friendly country to India BUT India did not returned/settled the land locked area (Chitmahals) with Bangladesh. Bangladesh handed over those right away after our independence. After FORTY long years, we have NOTHING in return.

Another example is our water sharing condition. Regardless of relationship status, we were NEVER an enemy country to India and international water source cannot be blocked by any one country costing another to desertification. Now India is actively protesting against China for what it has been doing to us since Farakka. This is the "Mother of all problems" with India and mother India is taking forever to address this BIG concern in a fair manner.

I have spoken about killing of unarmed civilians over petty crimes. You do not kill people for stealing a loaf of bread!! India can lock people up if they cross border without VISA (Indians do that frequently as well) but killing in a peaceful border is unwanted.

Another example is broken promises by India leadership. They have worked actively to block BD products in their country. Leading companies repeatedly complained how Indian customs harass our very small export industry in India. This cannot happen without government sponsorship.

The best way to improve relationship is to have people to people contact. Getting Indian visa now a days became a irritating exercise for most people.

Similarly we buy plenty of Indian products and watch India TV but our TV waves have been blocked by Indian authority. For over a decade friendly people (Who has business ties and strong friendship with Indians) repeatedly requested to allow us in Indian market but we have been blocked without any explanation. Do note that, India is not north Korea. It does allow hundreds of TV channels from all over the globe to it's audience but none from Bangladesh. If common Indians are fed hateful information about very peaceful country like Bangladesh, how the heck we sow the seeds of friendship?

Like you I used to blame our own country for such conditions. Later on I have asked around our other neighbors (I excluded Pakistan for obvious reasons and could not get anyone from Bhutan) about their perception of our neighbor India. Without failure the Sri Lankan, Nepalese, Chinese people spoke negatively about Indian policies and practices.

Awami League was in power two other times BEFORE current administration (Which is openly friendly to India) but even after meeting all most all Indian demands, we end up with next to nothing. Our primary concern is our life line WATER and India keeps putting it off.

Our people are NOT treated with dignity by Indians and any nation with any self-respect (Except new Indian-Rajakars!) cannot be pleased with such treatment. In fact, we had this issues with the the then west Pakistan and we broke out of that union!!

At personal level I get along fine with most Indians. But at state level I watch their practices with frustration. Keep Asking WHY? I strongly feel it is in best interest of India to have a GREAT trusting relationship with Bangladesh. The kind of money Indian bureaucracy spends of defense could have been saved (Because BD never posed as a threat to India) to use to help poor Indians. India plays a zero sum game with us while having a win-win attitude could have yielded optimum results for both nations.

Today we have a very India friendly administration who bent over back wards to solve all major concerns of India. Still India does not deliver!!

In 21st century when European countries are coming together and helping each other, we see India doing it's best to bad mouth us. I strongly feel Bengalis are peaceful people by nature and never posed any real threat to anyone unless provoked repeatedly (Only natural). When BAL came to power, I was hopeful for improving our relationship with India but after three years, have not seen any fundamental change (Except a trade concession with garment products). Now if you contrast that with China and how many grants (NOT loans but gifts) it gave to improve infrastructure projects for this country, you can see the HUGE difference in approach. At the end of the day, all nations should look out for each other and eventually Bangladesh will sort out it's alliances. I sincerely hope, India will be among the best partners of BD. Because it will help both the countries.


-----Original Message-----
From: Jiten Roy <>
To: mukto-mona <>
Sent: Thu, Jun 7, 2012 5:41 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] 'ঢাকার সায় ছাড়া টিপাইমুখে বাঁধ হবে না' !!!!!

When it comes to Bangladesh-India relationship, people refer to broken promises without analyzing the underlying causes for those broken promises. They forget that within the last 40 years' lifespan of Bangladesh, it has been mostly run by political parties that are unfriendly to India. Remnant of anti-Indian sentiment of the Pakistani-era is still fresh in the hearts and minds of vast majority people in Bangladesh. No government has taken any step to repair it. In fact, that sentiment is still a winning political strategy in Bangladesh. Every time election comes, BNP/Jamat ignites anti-Indian sentiment, and fills peoples' psyche with renewed resentment towards India. As a result, very few people actually trust India, even when it is a simple goodwill gesture, like cultural exchanges. 
As you know – selfless help only comes from friends, not from enemies. When Bangladeshi people cannot trust the lone country that fought alongside them for the independence of their motherland, who do you blame? If we blame anybody, it should be us, not India. You should not forget, there would be no Bangladesh without Indian help. Please don't tell me now - India did it for their own interest; I know that. That's how it works. Otherwise, why would they risk their lives and resources? I am talking about trust-deficit here.
Bangladesh is nowhere near to establish a friendly relationship with India because of trust deficit. Therefore, let's stop those emotional talks about big-brotherly love and broken promises, and analyze the situation critically. We need psychiatric help to repair our collective psyche, before we take any step towards normalizing relationship with India.
India is trying to build Tipaimukh barrage for their own interest and need. Should there be a concern for Bangladesh? The answer is YES or NO, depending on whether India considers Bangladesh as a friendly country or not. That's a conundrum even Bangladesh doesn't know how to solve, let alone India.
Jiten Roy

--- On Tue, 6/5/12, Shah Deeldar <> wrote:

From: Shah Deeldar <>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] 'ঢাকার সায় ছাড়া টিপাইমুখে বাঁধ হবে না' !!!!!
To: "" <>
Cc: "" <>
Date: Tuesday, June 5, 2012, 10:26 PM

Brother, I would not be naive to expect anything free from India or any other countries. And also, I would not wait for full delivery of all Indian promises. That is a mere stupidity and I would not hold my breath for such thing ever to occur. Let me announce loud and clear! It will be a "give and take" between the countries. If BNP and Jamat come to the power and start the same tantrum like last time, nothing will be delivered. If BNP/Jamat wants to play hard ball with Indians, they will play harder. So, please do not get excited yet. It will be their national interests vs ours. With Myanmar getting closer to Indo/US sphere, India will play the Myanmar card very effectively. It is harder to fight a larger country. But, I think, we should be able to get a fair deal from the Indians if they consider us a fair partner.
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS

From: qar <>
Sent: Tuesday, June 5, 2012 6:35 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] 'ঢাকার সায় ছাড়া টিপাইমুখে বাঁধ হবে না' !!!!!

বাংলাদেশের সম্মতি ছাড়া বরাক নদীর টিপাইমুখে বাঁধ নির্মাণ হবে না বলে আবার আশ্বস্ত করেছে ভারত।

>>>>>>>>> India gave many such assurances to Bangladesh in last 40+ years and it's track record of keeping promises to Bangladeshis is not good. Therefore such assurances lack credibility in common people. Other reports said the whole project is not "Business viable" and parts of Indian leadership are seeking BD investment in this project. Some of the "Seven sister states" are also opposed to the whole idea.

Because of many such empty promises by Indians, India is not trusted by common folks in Bangladesh. Those who do advocate for Indians are totally detached from reality.

Having said that, I feel IF India even become sincere about Bangladesh (Specifically about water sharing and more trade), it will be a true win-win partnership for both nations. Because of very bad track record, India has to work VERY hard to earn trust back from us.

Recently our leadership gave away most of Indian demands about transit but gotten a big zero in return. Late Sheikh Mujibur Rahman gave away "Chitmahals" right after we gotten our independence but India is yet to give our "Chitmahals" to us.

There are many similar issues which prohibits us from getting excited about this good announcement. One has to stay in the country to understand feelings of common people.

I'll wait till India delivers in her promises.


-----Original Message-----
From: Muhammad Ali <>
To: undisclosed recipients: ;
Sent: Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:30 am
Subject: [mukto-mona] 'ঢাকার সায় ছাড়া টিপাইমুখে বাঁধ হবে না' !!!!!


Mon, Jun 4th, 2012 8:46 pm BdST
শেখ শাহরিয়ার জামান
নয়া দিল্লি থেকে

নয়া দিল্লি, জুন ০৪ (বিডিনিউজ টোয়েন্টিফোর ডটকম)- বাংলাদেশের সম্মতি ছাড়া বরাক নদীর টিপাইমুখে বাঁধ নির্মাণ হবে না বলে আবার আশ্বস্ত করেছে ভারত।

ভারতের পানিসম্পদ সচিব ধ্রুব বিজয় সিং সোমবার নয়া দিল্লিতে বাংলাদেশি সাংবাদিকদের বলেন, "বাংলাদেশ আমাদের সঙ্গে না এলে আমরা নির্মাণের দিকে (টিপাইমুখ প্রকল্প) এগোবো না।"

ভারতের মনিপুর রাজ্যের টিপাইমুখ বহুমুখী প্রকল্প এলাকা পরিদর্শনের জন্য বাংলাদেশের প্রতিনিধি দল বর্তমানে ভারত সফর করছেন।

সিলেট সীমান্তের কাছে টিপাইমুখে বাঁধ নির্মাণ করে জলবিদ্যুৎ প্রকল্প বাস্তবায়নের পরিকল্পনা রয়েছে ভারতের। ওই বাঁধ হলে তার বিরূপ প্রভাব বাংলাদেশে পড়বে বলে পরিবেশ বিশেষজ্ঞদের আশঙ্কা। এনিয়ে বাংলাদেশে প্রতিবাদ চলছে।

বিজয় সিং বলেন, টিপাইমুখ প্রকল্পের কী কী প্রভাব বাংলাদেশের ওপর পড়তে পারে, তার সব দিক খতিয়ে দেখার জন্য সমীক্ষা শুরু করতে উভয় দেশের যৌথ নদী কমিশনের উপ-কমিটি এ মাসের শেষ দিকে বৈঠকে বসতে যাচ্ছে।

২০০ কোটি ডলারের এই প্রকল্পে অংশীদারিত্বের ভিত্তিতে বিনিয়োগের জন্য বাংলাদেশকে প্রস্তাব দিয়েছে ভারত এবং যৌথ নদী কমিশনের উপ-কমিটি অংশীদারিত্বের ভিত্তিতে বিনিয়োগের বিষয়টিও পর্যালোচনা করবে।

ভারতের সচিব বলেন, এই প্রকল্প সমস্যা সৃষ্টি করতে পারে বলে ভারতের কাছে মনে হলে অন্য কোথাও বাঁধ নির্মাণ করা হবে।

টিপাইমুখে কোনো নির্মাণ কাজ এখনো শুরু হয়নি বলেও জানান তিনি।

'টিপাইমুখ প্রকল্পের প্রস্তাব ১৯৭৪ সালে'

সাংবাদিকদের সঙ্গে মতবিনিময়ে ভারতের পানিসম্পদমন্ত্রী পবন কুমার বানসাল জানান, বাংলাদেশের পক্ষ থেকে ১৯৭৪ সালে টিপাইমুখ প্রকল্পের প্রস্তাব দেওয়া হয়েছিল।

এ সংক্রান্ত তথ্য দেখতে চাইলে তার দপ্তর থেকে ১৯৭৩ সালের নভেম্বরে যৌথ নদী কমিশনের বৈঠকের সম্মতিপত্র তুলে ধরা হয়।

তাতে লেখা হয়, "ভারত ও বাংলাদেশে বন্যার পরিপ্রেক্ষিতে বরাক বাঁধ প্রকল্প নিয়ে সমীক্ষার বিষয় বিবেচনা করছে কমিশন এবং সুপারিশ করা হচ্ছে যে, বন্যা নিয়ন্ত্রণ এবং সিলেট, কাছাড় ও এর আশপাশের এলাকার সুরক্ষায় বাংলাদেশ ও ভারতের বিশেষজ্ঞরা এই প্রকল্প পর্যালোচনা করবেন।"

ভারতে বাংলাদেশের হাইকমিশনার তারেক এ করিম সাংবাদিকদের বলেন, ১৯৭২ থেকে ১৯৮২ সাল পর্যন্ত বিষয়টি এমনই ছিল। কিন্তু ১৯৮২ সালে যখন দেখা যায়, এই প্রকল্প বাংলাদেশের জন্য ক্ষতির কারণ হতে পারে, তখন দৃশ্যপট পাল্টে যায়।

১৯৭২ থেকে ১৯৭৫ সাল পর্যন্ত যৌথ নদী কমিশনের ১৩টি বৈঠক হয়। এরপর ১৯৭৮ থেকে ১৯৮২ সাল পর্যন্ত (বিএনপি আমলে) আটটি বৈঠক, ১৯৮২ সাল থেকে ১৯৯১ সাল পর্যন্ত ১১টি বৈঠক হয়। তবে ১৯৯১ থেকে ১৯৯৬ সাল পর্যন্ত প্রতিবেশী দুই দেশের যৌথ নদী কমিশনের কোনো বৈঠক হয়নি।

১৯৯৬ থেকে ২০০১ সালে তিনবার, ২০০২ থেকে ২০০৬ সাল মেয়াদে দুইবার এবং বর্তমান সরকারের মেয়াদে একবার বৈঠকে বসেছে যৌথ নদী কমিশন।


টিপাইমুখ বাঁধ প্রকল্পে ২২ হাজার হেক্টরের একটি জলাধার নির্মাণের পরিকল্পনা করা হয়েছে এবং বন্যার সময় এটা পূর্ণ করা হবে।

প্রস্তাবিত এই জলাধারে ৯০০ কোটি ঘনমিটার পানি ধারণ ক্ষমতা থাকবে, যা কাপ্তাই লেকের চেয়ে ছয় গুণ বড়।

জলশক্তি ব্যবহার করে এই প্রকল্পে দেড় হাজার মেগাওয়াট বিদ্যুৎ উৎপাদনের পরিকল্পনা নেওয়া হয়েছে।

ভারতের উচ্চ পর্যায়ের এক কূটনৈতিক সূত্রের বক্তব্য, এই প্রকল্পে বিদ্যুৎ উৎপাদন খুব বেশি লাভজনক হবে না।

পানি সেচ প্রকল্প

ভারতের পানিসম্পদ সচিব বলেন, সেচের কোনো পরিকল্পনা না থাকায় টিপাইমুখ প্রকল্পে পানি প্রত্যাহার করা হবে না।

ফুলের তলে ব্যারেজ নির্মাণের বিষয়ে জানতে চাইলে তিনি বলেন, এ ধরনের কোনো প্রকল্পও তাদের নেই।

টিপাইমুখ থেকে একশ' কিলোমিটার ভাটিতে ফুলের তলাতে ব্যারেজ নির্মিত হবে বলে কথা উঠেছে।

তিস্তা চুক্তি

ভারতের পানিসম্পদমন্ত্রী বলেন, তিস্তার পানি বণ্টন চুক্তি নিয়ে উভয় দেশের সরকারের মধ্যে রাজনৈতিক সদিচ্ছা রয়েছে এবং যত দ্রুত সম্ভব এ চুক্তি সইয়ের জন্য তারা চেষ্টা করছেন।

গত বছরের সেপ্টেম্বরে ভারতের প্রধানমন্ত্রী মনমোহন সিংয়ের ঢাকা সফরের সময় তিস্তার পানি বণ্টন চুক্তি সই হওয়ার কথা ছিল। কিন্তু শেষ মুহূর্তে পশ্চিমবঙ্গের মুখ্যমন্ত্রী মমতা বন্দ্যোপাধ্যায়ের আপত্তিতে তা আটকে যায়।

বিডিনিউজ টোয়েন্টিফোর ডটকম/এসএসজেড/এএইচ/এমআই/২১৩৪ ঘ.


Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:




"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190

Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe