All value judgments are opinions, and it goes without saying. What is the reason for saying it? Trying to disparage the judgment? I am not bothered by that. I am sure, when a brainwashed religious person calls my judgment 'your opinion', it does not lessen the value of my judgment to rational people who have a sense of judging as opposed to blindly believing.
I have tried to avoid specifying any religion for criticism, and used the term "God-fearing religions." However, Mr. Rahman wants to talk about his religion. So let me be a little bit of specific here. Based upon my unbiased reading of Islam, I think I have better things to do than spending more time studying or understanding the status of women in that religion.
Talking about the Japanese violence in WW-2, it was in spite of their religion, not because of it. That is not the same as in many other places, where hatred and violence are because of religions, not in spite of them.
It is not surprising that people like Mr. Rahman would avoid talking about how following of religions is contributing to the uncontrolled population growth in many parts of our subcontinent, including Bangladesh and Assam. Uncontrolled growth in population is a factor for discontent in our subcontinent, irrespective of what religious group is in the minority in what specific region.
In Assam as well as in the Chittagong Hill Tracts, for example, the uncontrolled growth of Bangalees and their encroachments of tribal territories are causing problems. The difference between Assam and the CHT is that in the latter the encroachers have the backing of a powerful government, which is lacking in the former.
Even where there is no minority-majority issue, too many people is a problem. For example, recently a survey found Dhaka to be the most unlivable big city in the world. It is unlivable to all people irrespective of religions.
The bottom line is, the population growth needs to be controlled, following religion or not.
Sukhamaya Bain
==============================================
From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 2:52 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Let us not criticize religions, criticize religion-peddling
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 2:52 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Let us not criticize religions, criticize religion-peddling
when Prophet was engaged in many wars. In a war, innocent people get killed. There is no denying about it. Then I realize that - devils are in the details of the term "Innocent Person." Who are those innocent persons? I can exclude almost everyone from that category. Therefore, this verse bears very little significance to me.
>>>>>>>>>> The last messenger of Allah (PBUH) did engage in many wars. However, he worked very hard to avoid any conflicts for first thirteen years since he received revelation from God. When people of Mecca still wanted to kill him, he preferred peace and moved out of Mecca. He relocated to the city of Medina (The then Yathrib) to avoid any bloodshed. When people of Mecca wanted to attack the city of Medina, he fought to defend the city and people who lived in it. Out of 23 recorded conflicts/wars he took part, in most cases (22 times) his people were attacked. In one case when some leaders of Mecca wanted to sell properties of Muslims in that city, he decided to intercept and protect their properties.
Now during out times, when Pakistani army killed thousands of people during 26th March, some brave Bengalis decided to fight back ( It is a right given by God to all humanity). What you are doing here is showing how little you know about history (Albeit I have given very detailed explanations with solid references).
I don't mind criticism but if you want to form an opinion about something, you ought to invest some time to know about the topic. What you have done here is blaming our freedom fighters to "Killing" Pakistani army during 1971. With all due respect, it is very ignorant and absurd opinion of the topic.
the no God-fearing religion, Buddhism, looks superior to the God-fearing ones.
>>>>>>> Thanks for sharing your "Opinions". However facts on ground (Burma/Myanmar) says, they (Buddhism) are equally capable of persecuting innocent people. So maybe your opinions about religion needs to be re-examined by you!!
Also Japanese violence during the second world war is well documented. Ask any Koreans and they will tell you plenty more about Japanese "Contribution" for Koreans during the same time. So one more time, it seems like it is a mere personal opinion which is not supported by facts on ground!!
>>>>>>>>>>> While I disagree with your "Opinions", I can see where you are coming from and at least this opinion have some relevance with reality.
Now if you do some research, you will see India (With around 85% Hindu population) aborts more "girl infants/fetus" than any nation around the globe. This is no less than mass murder being committed and tolerated by Indians every day!!
Still I don't blame Hinduism for it. It is greedy people who thinks status of girl is less than a man decides fates of these souls. Reality says, these people (Most of the time) are NOT driven by religion but their greed.
Similarly, status of women in Islam is a vast subject. I encourage you to study it BEFORE you pass your "Opinion" about this often misunderstood topic. In the spirit of fairness, I agree with you that, many ignorant/greedy Muslims do abuse women. It is NOT restricted to Muslims only but a global problem covering people of all faiths and no faiths.
Lastly, thank you for your kind offer to "Educate" me. I am always up for knowledge. However in this case, maybe you ought invest some time to educate yourself on the topic to "UNDERSTAND" Islamic point of view.
Also note, women probably enjoy more freedom in the western countries. Still most of the new reverts/converts to Islam are women. Maybe you should ask some of them about it and appreciate their "Freedom" to pick a religion. :-)
, I have no doubt that lack of birth control is a factor there.
>>>>>>>> Really? Birth control was the issue? Not hate mongering, fear mongering or law and order issue?
I just want to know how to you expect us (The common people ) to reconcile that facts that, you care deeply about minority oppression in Bangladesh and blame birth control for minority oppressions in India? Is is a moral or rational stand? I leave it out to reads of this forum........
Any idea, Mr. Rahman, how the religious beliefs are exacerbating/relieving this problem?
>>>>>>>>>> What's next? You are going to blame corruption of current administration on Islam??
May knowledge, logic, fairness, justice guide you.
Shalom!!
>>>>>>>>>> The last messenger of Allah (PBUH) did engage in many wars. However, he worked very hard to avoid any conflicts for first thirteen years since he received revelation from God. When people of Mecca still wanted to kill him, he preferred peace and moved out of Mecca. He relocated to the city of Medina (The then Yathrib) to avoid any bloodshed. When people of Mecca wanted to attack the city of Medina, he fought to defend the city and people who lived in it. Out of 23 recorded conflicts/wars he took part, in most cases (22 times) his people were attacked. In one case when some leaders of Mecca wanted to sell properties of Muslims in that city, he decided to intercept and protect their properties.
Now during out times, when Pakistani army killed thousands of people during 26th March, some brave Bengalis decided to fight back ( It is a right given by God to all humanity). What you are doing here is showing how little you know about history (Albeit I have given very detailed explanations with solid references).
I don't mind criticism but if you want to form an opinion about something, you ought to invest some time to know about the topic. What you have done here is blaming our freedom fighters to "Killing" Pakistani army during 1971. With all due respect, it is very ignorant and absurd opinion of the topic.
the no God-fearing religion, Buddhism, looks superior to the God-fearing ones.
>>>>>>> Thanks for sharing your "Opinions". However facts on ground (Burma/Myanmar) says, they (Buddhism) are equally capable of persecuting innocent people. So maybe your opinions about religion needs to be re-examined by you!!
Also Japanese violence during the second world war is well documented. Ask any Koreans and they will tell you plenty more about Japanese "Contribution" for Koreans during the same time. So one more time, it seems like it is a mere personal opinion which is not supported by facts on ground!!
In an attempt to educate people like Mr. Rahman, let me note that most God-fearing and 'complete code' religions have been unjust to women.
>>>>>>>>>>> While I disagree with your "Opinions", I can see where you are coming from and at least this opinion have some relevance with reality.
Now if you do some research, you will see India (With around 85% Hindu population) aborts more "girl infants/fetus" than any nation around the globe. This is no less than mass murder being committed and tolerated by Indians every day!!
Still I don't blame Hinduism for it. It is greedy people who thinks status of girl is less than a man decides fates of these souls. Reality says, these people (Most of the time) are NOT driven by religion but their greed.
Similarly, status of women in Islam is a vast subject. I encourage you to study it BEFORE you pass your "Opinion" about this often misunderstood topic. In the spirit of fairness, I agree with you that, many ignorant/greedy Muslims do abuse women. It is NOT restricted to Muslims only but a global problem covering people of all faiths and no faiths.
Lastly, thank you for your kind offer to "Educate" me. I am always up for knowledge. However in this case, maybe you ought invest some time to educate yourself on the topic to "UNDERSTAND" Islamic point of view.
Also note, women probably enjoy more freedom in the western countries. Still most of the new reverts/converts to Islam are women. Maybe you should ask some of them about it and appreciate their "Freedom" to pick a religion. :-)
, I have no doubt that lack of birth control is a factor there.
>>>>>>>> Really? Birth control was the issue? Not hate mongering, fear mongering or law and order issue?
I just want to know how to you expect us (The common people ) to reconcile that facts that, you care deeply about minority oppression in Bangladesh and blame birth control for minority oppressions in India? Is is a moral or rational stand? I leave it out to reads of this forum........
Any idea, Mr. Rahman, how the religious beliefs are exacerbating/relieving this problem?
>>>>>>>>>> What's next? You are going to blame corruption of current administration on Islam??
May knowledge, logic, fairness, justice guide you.
Shalom!!
-----Original Message----- From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, Aug 21, 2012 5:37 am Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Let us not criticize religions, criticize religion-peddling
(Re-sent with minor changes)
I would like to talk about religions in generalized terms, even when I do recognize that all religions are not the same. Specifically, to me, the no God-fearing religion, Buddhism, looks superior to the God-fearing ones.
Of course, it gets harder to talk in generalized terms when someone keeps bringing up his own religion. Since I do not want to criticize/praise any particular aspect of any particular religion, let me try to maintain the generality.
Killing is not the only way to do injustice to innocent people. Of course, my message was, "under the cover of divinity and unquestionability of religions, criminal people have been making life miserable for too many innocent people." While killing is arguably the most serious form of injustice, life of the killed cannot be miserable after that!!
In an attempt to educate people like Mr. Rahman, let me note that most God-fearing and 'complete code' religions have been unjust to women. Most God-fearing religions are also unjust to people who look at God with different belief systems and with no belief. These are just two examples; and I would let Mr. Rahman count how many people are affected by these two only.
Talking about the Assam problem, I have no doubt that lack of birth control is a factor there. Bangladesh has too many people also; and the government has a valid reason to discourage the Rohingya people to settle there. In fact, if we look at the population growth problem in Dhaka and in Bangladesh overall, it is like a huge bomb on a timer. Any idea, Mr. Rahman, how the religious beliefs are exacerbating/relieving this problem?
Sukhamaya Bain
================================================= From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Let us not criticize religions, criticize religion-peddling
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Let us not criticize religions, criticize religion-peddling
When I heard the verse "Islam clearly said, if an innocent person is killed, it is like killing of all humanity ( Source: Al Qurán 5:32)" for the first time, I had the same reaction as Dr. Das. I was wondering how this verse could make sense, when Prophet was engaged in many wars. In a war, innocent people get killed. There is no denying about it. Then I realize that - devils are in the details of the term "Innocent Person." Who are those innocent persons? I can exclude almost everyone from that category. Therefore, this verse bears very little significance to me. Jiten Roy ============================================================= --- On Sun, 8/19/12, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:
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