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Tuesday, December 9, 2014

Re: [mukto-mona] God does not need religion, religion needs God

I appreciate your wisdom. But, not completely agree with this kind of extreme view. I am not talking about adoring a Shalgram Shila but imagining certain thing in a secular way to give our minds a temporary picture of a thing that we do not understand (please ignore the God). Why this would be considered as sinful and toxic when we know that science corrects itself whether we want or not? Why this rigidity when we do not know everything as opposed to an idealist knowing everything about *his/her God and messengers?

Neurons of our brains are autonomous entities even though they work in synchrony. It would be absurd and wrong to say that we control all of them consciously all the time. We don't!! If you consider a secular spirituality is toxic, I must say we are being exposed to it every moment and we have been doing fine since the first man started to walk. Life would be totally disaster without the simultaneous existence of spirituality in our minds. Call it a hardware to function without the software.

My definition of spirituality is some what different from other forum members. I call it a deeper thinking with all doors being open all the time along the line of great Tagore. Thank you all and I stop here.

On Monday, December 8, 2014 9:33 PM, "Kamal Das [mukto-mona]" <> wrote:

Spiritualism is toxic, materialism is not. As a spiritual person, one can adore a hollow stone known as shalgram shila as Narayana. To a materialist, it is worth no more than a paper weight. Shallowness in ancient thoughts led to religious concepts. Not even the modern scientific world can get rid of them.

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 9, 2014, at 2:35 AM, "Shah Deeldar [mukto-mona]" <> wrote:

Yes, however, I do not see why a materialist would not be able to practice a non religious spiritualism? It is rather an inherent property of our cognitive brain, which is a product of many million years of evolution. Is it always logical? Does it always need to seek a material basis of everything? There are plenty of things that we do not sense with our sensory organs. Does that mean they not exist? There are plenty of things that we would never see even with our fancy instruments but their existence might be proven indirectly with some math equations. Are they real?

I do not think the spirituality should exclusively be boxed with idealism.

On Sunday, December 7, 2014 8:35 PM, "Jiten Roy [mukto-mona]" <> wrote:

Use Bangla meaning of materialistic and spiritualistic to understand them.

Spiritualistic => Addhyattik
Materialistic => Bastovbadik

From: "Shah Deeldar [mukto-mona]" <>
Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2014 6:12 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] God does not need religion, religion needs God

I would not equalize a spiritualist with an idealist (people who believe brain being a product of idea). Both an idealist and materialist can be spiritual. I see no problem with that unless you got a different definition for spirituality? As materialist, you can be spiritual about anything and everything. Why that would be a problem, I still do not get it. Thanks.

On Sunday, December 7, 2014 5:59 PM, "Jiten Roy [mukto-mona]" <> wrote:

You bring Rabindra Nath again and again, but you do not understand if he was a spiritualist or a materialist. Do you understand where his source of inspiration came from?  

Jiten Roy

From: "Subimal Chakrabarty [mukto-mona]" <>
Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2014 1:25 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] God does not need religion, religion needs God

I agree with Mr. Deeldar. Again we can use Rabindranath as an example. Was he exclusively a materialist or a spiritual man? He wrote devotional songs and songs and poems of love. At the same time he wrote essays including essays on science. You will not smell any spirituality in the latter. In his personal life he maintained two distinct entities within himself----spiritual and materialist. We all more or less are like this. 

Spirituality is real and human brain---to repeat Deeldar---is a product of our brain. The concept of God or ghost one has in his mind is nothing but a subjective reality. This subjective reality can have a big impact on the life of one who believes in God or ghost. But it is not only intangible, in reality it does not exist, or at least one cannot form a refutable hypothesis based on the existence of God or ghost. 

As we know people need God for various reasons. It can even simply be a prejudice instilled by the society in one's mind. Some people through rational thinking and scientific judgement can shake it off, some cannot. Some cannot because they do not want any disequilibrium in life. Some cannot because of fear. Some cannot because of the sense of uncertainty.

 Rabindranath never said any thing against the atheists. He rather praised them at one point. But he used his jeebon debota as his Polaris to which maintained a continuous journey throughout his life. He never boasted of it nor advised any one to follow his unique path. He was not a preacher, but he had innumerable informal followers or disciples. Even Abu Syed Ayub, apparently an atheist, wrote Panthojoner Sakha (Friend of the traveller). We are all traveling and we probably need a friend to guide so that we are in the right track. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 7, 2014, at 10:54 AM, Jiten Roy [mukto-mona] <> wrote:

It is almost impossible for a strict materialistic to be spiritual. Your definition of spirituality as an open minded attitude towards life and its surroundings is also impractical, because spirituality requires a focal point of thought, just like you require in the meditation. When you do that, you are no longer an open minded people. Most people put God at the focal point of spirituality, as Rabindra Nath did.     


Posted by: Shah Deeldar <>

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