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Friday, January 23, 2015

Re: [mukto-mona] French farce on Charlie

I wish I could say that. I always say it in a forum of free thinkers like muktomona. But I will not say it to the others. One reason, I don't want to hurt their feelings as they are not ready yet to hear such words. In other words, the objective conditions have not yet been created. Second, such words may arouse the beast inside a blind believer. Why to take the risk? Taking such risks can be quite unproductive. Outspokenness can turn into a boomerang. Should we then be passive or indifferent? No. Get them prepared through education and removing the root causes that hinder their awakening. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 20, 2015, at 6:16 PM, Shah Deeldar [mukto-mona] <> wrote:


"I will never go to a remote village and tell my relatives that their gods and goddesses are all false. "

Why not? You come to my house uninvited and demand, I should start respecting you and your religion? I am sorry I can't go along with that kind of attitude.
Why can't I go to a village and say I do not believe in your Gods? Why this is a problem?That is what preachers do all the time, explicitly or implicitly!

On Tuesday, January 20, 2015 8:57 AM, "Subimal Chakrabarty [mukto-mona]" <> wrote:

Freedom of speech is a universal concept. Theoretically we all should have the freedom to express our own views, opinions, and creative ideas. But the problem is that we all are not equally ready for it to the fullest extent. I will never go to a remote village and tell my relatives that their gods and goddesses are all false. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 19, 2015, at 6:25 PM, Jiten Roy [mukto-mona] <> wrote:

Freedom of speech is subjective; it needs to be defined on the basis of prevailing circumstances. What is a freedom of speech in one country may not be so in another country.  For example, what is a freedom of speech in France may not be a freedom of speech in Muslim countries. 
Now, if you come to France, you must accept the freedom of speech of that country; you cannot redefine freedom of speech in your own way.
Jiten Roy


From: "Sukhamaya Bain [mukto-mona]" <>
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2015 1:08 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] French farce on Charlie

The West is indeed hypocritical when they prosecute speeches that they do not like, while defend speeches that they like. In case of Charlie Hebdo, the "Je Suis Charlie" slogan is a shame. While I defend Charlie Hebdo's right to print their cartoons, I am not Charlie. I do not like making provocative/stupid jokes involving religious icons. Making stupid jokes involving someone who is considered a prophet or God by hundreds of millions of people is not the same as shunning religious stupidity and hatred. The civilized world needs to do the latter, not the former, which can go against realizing the latter. My understanding is that most Westerners are actually not Charlie.
The civilized world certainly needs to prosecute and forcibly stop barbaric crimes, such as killing, raping, burning people's home, etc., that are being committed by Muslims in many parts of the world. However, any kind of hate speech, including the ones that come from Muslim bigots, should be criticized with words only. If the hate speech causes anyone to contemplate/commit a crime, the crime should be stopped and the criminal should be punished. In a truly free speech regime, no speech is to be prosecuted.
Sukhamaya Bain


On Sunday, January 18, 2015 6:15 PM, "Shah Deeldar [mukto-mona]" <> wrote:

It is hard to know whether Mr. Ray endorses the article or he simply wants us to pass opinions about the contents? It would be absurd to say that the West are free of hypocrisy. No they are not! But despite all the western hypocrisies, Muslim migrants have been pouring into the west and love to stay in the West? For what? Western liberty, luxury and glitters? The answer is of course is obvious. Islamic homelands have failed Muslims miserably for few centuries. But ironically, nobody would acknowledge that cruel truth. Muslims  would migrate but do not want to assimilate in their newly adopted countries but to bring baggage from their home countries to create a state within a state. So, what country would tolerate such silent foreign invasion in their republics? Maybe, Ray should have a first-hand experience after being cleansed from then East Bengal or East Pakistan? Is he still a gullible man, who thinks, it is the fate that determines people' destiny?

Why only Muslims get marginalized and profiled in the West and other infidel countries? The author of course know the answers but he would not say it publicly because that would invalidate the lame arguments that he has made about the Muslim specific discrimination. If Muslims look everything through the prism of the religion and prophet, I do no see how that community can become an enlightened one and stronger. A self critic is overdue! Murders would not silence the West and it's hypocrisy.


On Saturday, January 17, 2015 5:15 PM, "'Sankar Kumar Ray' [mukto-mona]" <> wrote:


France Arrests a Comedian For His Facebook Comments, Showing the Sham of the West's "Free Speech" Celebration

Forty-eight hours after hosting a massive march under the banner of free expression, France opened a criminal investigation of a controversial French comedian for a Facebook post he wrote about the Charlie Hebdo attack, and then this morning, arrested him for that post on charges of "defending terrorism." The comedian, Dieudonné (above), previously sought elective office in France on what he called an "anti-Zionist" platform, has had his show banned by numerous government officials in cities throughout France, and has been criminally prosecuted several times before for expressing ideas banned in that country.
The apparently criminal viewpoint he posted on Facebook declared: "Tonight, as far as I'm concerned, I feel like Charlie Coulibaly." Investigators concluded that this was intended to mock the "Je Suis Charlie" slogan and express support for the perpetrator of the Paris supermarket killings (whose last name was "Coulibaly"). Expressing that opinion is evidently a crime in the Republic of Liberté, which prides itself on a line of 20th Century intellectuals – from Sartre and Genet to Foucault and Derrida – whose hallmark was leaving no orthodoxy or convention unmolested, no matter how sacred.
Since that glorious "free speech" march, France has reportedly opened 54 criminal cases for "condoning terrorism." AP


Posted by: Subimal Chakrabarty <>

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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190