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Friday, June 12, 2015

Re: [mukto-mona] Re: {PFC-Friends} Mark Zuckerberg wants everyone to read 'The Muqaddimah' : which contradicts the Quran completely

Logically, there cannot be more than one God, and, if that's the case, there can't be more than one religion on earth for all human beings. So, at best, only one of these organized religions may be the real one, meaning rest of them are fake. Every religion claims – it's the real one, but none can prove it, so all demand blind faith on them.

In my view, that one religion is the 'humanity,' defining certain characteristics of human beings that separate them from the rest of the beings on the earth.
Jiten Roy


From: "Subimal Chakrabarty [mukto-mona]" <>
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 8:01 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: {PFC-Friends} Mark Zuckerberg wants everyone to read 'The Muqaddimah' : which contradicts the Quran completely

Dr. Jiten Roy, a scientist, believes in God. He, however, will argue that he has no faith in any organized religion. His God--he will probably argue--is not s religious one, rather it is a metaphysical or spiritual construct. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 11, 2015, at 6:56 PM, Jiten Roy [mukto-mona] <> wrote:

You are right – the ultimate determinant of truth will be the science. Religion, on the other hand, is a hypothesis that can never be verified, but, there is no dearth of people to have complete faith in it.
Human beings are normally critical of everything due to natural survival instincts, but – brainwashing can change all that. Correct brainwashing can destroy peoples' mental faculty for criticism, no matter how harmful the effect of it is. Thus, assassins are manufactured out of the most innocent people in the society.
Jiten Roy

From: "Shah Deeldar [mukto-mona]" <>
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: {PFC-Friends} Mark Zuckerberg wants everyone to read 'The Muqaddimah' : which contradicts the Quran completely

Agree! How would an objective mind have two contradictory positions simultaneously? Science can't be polluted with the idea like... God has all the answers. It does not and it never had!   

On Tuesday, June 9, 2015 10:24 PM, "Kamal Das [mukto-mona]" <> wrote:

Belief in science keeps the door open to criticism and review while belief in religion closes it. Nobody can be a believer in both.

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 10, 2015, at 5:43 AM, Jiten Roy [mukto-mona] <> wrote:


This shows you really did not understand my post. If I say – Man is stronger than woman, you will perhaps show me some women wrestlers to prove that not all men are stronger than women.

You said: "One can simultaneously be strong believers in both science and religion."

You cannot selectively believe in science. That's a total nonsense. When someone disbelief science because it contradicts religious belief, he/she is only pretending to believe in science.

Jiten Roy


From: "Subimal Chakrabarty [mukto-mona]" <>
Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2015 9:48 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: {PFC-Friends} Mark Zuckerberg wants everyone to read 'The Muqaddimah' : which contradicts the Quran completely

I did not understand why you used the strong words 'completely denounced', although, I am sure, you yourself do not believe. Muslims and Muslim majority countries have not completely denounced science. The theory of evolution and other topics in science are taught in Muslim majority countries. 

One can simultaneously be strong believers in both science and religion. This is true for all religious communities. As you know many people in America do not believe in the theory of evolution. They do it despite having great respect for science. Reason and faith, looks like, are nurtured by two distinct mental faculties. Obviously there are overlaps and sometimes there can be dangerous clashes. The latter can happen if 'church' is not separated from 'state'. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 8, 2015, at 7:20 PM, Jiten Roy [mukto-mona] <> wrote:


Which part of my post is so complicated that you could not understand? 

Historically, religion has always been in the way of advancement of knowledge. Think about earlier European society, dominated by Christian clergies, where scientists had been mercilessly tortured, imprisoned, and killed because of espousing knowledge contradicting the established religious beliefs. On that backdrop, look at the European society today. What do you see? How did European society liberated itself from the clergy domination? How did that society go to where it is today? Don't you think – Muslim society could have been there today, had they been able to overcome clergy domination and make use of the knowledge of the 14th century Muslim visionaries?

You should know, a few scientists here and there are not the norm; they are just exceptions. Even many of those scientists are ultra-religious themselves, and can not set their mind free from the religious bondage. Consequently, some of them are trying to color scientific knowledge with religious flavors. That's the irony of the Muslim world, in my view. 

Jiten Roy


From: "Subimal Chakrabarty [mukto-mona]" <>
Sent: Sunday, June 7, 2015 10:56 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: {PFC-Friends} Mark Zuckerberg wants everyone to read 'The Muqaddimah' : which contradicts the Quran completely

1. Mr. Deeldar's comment is not clear to me and as such I refrain from saying any thing on it.

2. I don't understand why Dr. Jiten Roy thinks that the Muslim world 'completely' 'denounced' the knowledge of the 14th century. Muslims don't learn science! There are no scientists among them! 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 7, 2015, at 9:33 AM, Shah Deeldar [mukto-mona] <> wrote:

It is ironic that only infidels have the eyes for great hidden Muslim treasures? Would this wake up people to the reality of new world? Or, the man will be condemned as an obsolete apostate? 

On Saturday, June 6, 2015 11:17 PM, "Jiten Roy [mukto-mona]" <> wrote:

[Attachment(s) from Jiten Roy included below]

Muslim world completely denounced those knowledge of the 14 century, and failed to utilize the knowledge to advance. They have done the same under British rule, while Hindus embraced it whole heartedly.

Why is that? It's because - Muslims have ultra-fascination for their religion. No society can advance with such fascination for religion; the goal of the religion is to block mental maturity, not advancement. Islam, even though, ask followers to go to china to acquire knowledge, but when someone does that, he/she gains knowledge that contradict the religious text. So, those knowledge get rejected right away by the greater Muslim community, and he/she becomes apostate.

That's the reason why 14th century knowledge gained remained untapped by the Mulsim community, but embraced by the non-Muslim communities, especially by the European communities and moved forward.

Jiten Roy


From: "SyedAslam [mukto-mona]" <>
Sent: Saturday, June 6, 2015 6:06 PM
Subject: [mukto-mona] Re: {PFC-Friends} Mark Zuckerberg wants everyone to read 'The Muqaddimah' : which contradicts the Quran completely

During the 14th century, Ibn Khaldun wrote in his book 'Al Muqaddimah' (The Introduction):

   This world with all the created things in it has a certain order and solid construction. It shows nexuses between causes and things caused, combinations of some parts of creation with others, and transformations of some existent things into others, in a pattern that is both remarkable and endless. [...]

    One should then take a look at the world of creation. It started out from the minerals and progressed, in an ingenious, gradual manner, to plants and animals. The last stage of minerals is connected with the first stage of plants, such as herbs and seedless plants. The last stage of plants, such as palms and vines, is connected with the first stage of animals, such as snails and shellfish which have only the power of touch. The word 'connection' with regard to these created things means that the last stage of each group is fully prepared to become the fist stage of the newest group.

    The animal world then widens, its species become numerous, and, in a gradual process of creation, it finally leads to man, who is able to think and reflect. The higher stage of man is reached from the world of monkeys, in which both sagacity and preception are found, but which has not reached the stage of actual reflection and thinking. At this point we come to the first stage of man. This is as far as our (physical) observation extends. [pp 74-75]

Ibn Khaldun on human evolution - Council of Ex-MuslimsInline image 1 › ... › Religions and Gods
Sep 18, 2011 - 7 posts - ‎5 authors
Ibn Khaldun on human evolution. ...
 I renounced my faith to become a kafir, the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim ...

Yup, which completely contradicts the Quran

Ibn Khaldun [1332-1406]: 'Arabs are by their savage nature ...Inline image 2
May 19, 2014 - Ibn KhaldÅ«n (1332–1406) was a famous arab historiographer and historian born in present-day ... Ibn Khaldun writes, .... Kafir & Proud T-Shirts.

Creation of world in Six daysInline image 3
It is mentioned in Quran that this universe was created in six days or six periods. This is mentioned in 7 different verses and also explained in details in three ... 

The Qur'an, Creation and Evolution - The Detailed Qur'anInline image 4 ... He creates you in the wombs of your mothers-- a creation after a creation-- in triple darkness; that is Allah your .... The Verses Used by 'Muslim' Evolutionists to Try and Justify the Muslim Acceptance of Evolution…

On Thu, Jun 4, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Isha Khan <> wrote:

Mark Zuckerberg wants everyone to read the 14th-century Islamic book 'The Muqaddimah'

the muqaddimah

Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg's 2015 New Year's resolution was to read an important book every two weeks and discuss it with the Facebook community.
Zuckerberg's book club, A Year of Books, has focused on big ideas that influence society and business. His selections so far have been mostly contemporary, but for his 11th pick he's chosen "The Muqaddimah," written in 1377 by the Islamic historian Ibn Khaldun.
"The Muqaddimah," which translates to "The Introduction," is an early attempt to strip away biases of historical records and find universal elements in the progression of humanity.
Khaldun's revolutionary scientific approach to history has established him as one of the foundational thinkers of modern sociology and historiography.
The influential 20th-century British historian Arnold J. Toynbee described "The Muqaddimah" as "a philosophy of history, which is undoubtedly the greatest work of its kind that has ever yet been created by any mind in any time or place," according to the Encyclopedia Britannica.
Zuckerberg explains his latest book-club pick on his personal Facebook page:
It's a history of the world written by an intellectual who lived in the 1300s. It focuses on how society and culture flow, including the creation of cities, politics, commerce and science.
While much of what was believed then is now disproven after 700 more years of progress, it's still very interesting to see what was understood at this time and the overall worldview when it's all considered together.
Most of Zuckerberg's book club selections have explored issues through a sociological lens, so it makes sense he is now reading a book that helped create the field.

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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190