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Wednesday, August 19, 2015

Re: [mukto-mona] The savages!

Hitler's dictatorship lasted for about 12 years; 1933-1945. ISIS has been in power for the last 2 years in what is largely a "state" that the Iraqi and Syrian governments cannot defeat, and that the big world powers have so far been unable/unwilling to crush. Professor Chakrabarty and most of us in this forum are likely to live at least 10 more years; and let me ask you to mark my worlds: ISIS is likely to survive more than 10 more years.

In any case, ISIS could be called a comet. But I would call it an acute flare-up of the chronic disease called "Islamic fanaticism." ISIS may be gone, but the damage that is being by the chronic form of that disease in Bangladesh, Malaysia, Indonesia, Turkey, etc. are not going to be repaired in hundreds of years; and I have mentioned only some of the more sensible Muslim-majority nations, the situation in the worse ones are worse.

So, rational discussions/criticisms of Islam and Muslim blind following of it are critical for the well-being of a lot of people of both non-Muslim and Muslim backgrounds. And I would not treat other religions/peoples that critically; as they are moving forward, even if not as fast as I want them to.

Sukhamaya Bain


On Wednesday, August 19, 2015 6:20 PM, "Subimal Chakrabarty [mukto-mona]" <> wrote:

You cannot change the mind of those who are extremely committed. But you can change those who are unsure about what should be done. Even you can help many come to sense and shun the path of violence. Education is going on. It is being done by different people and different institutions in different ways. Take my word: ISIS, Hitler, etc. are like comets. They disappear in a short while. But as long as they exist, they create sensation and havoc. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 18, 2015, at 7:59 AM, Shah Deeldar [mukto-mona] <> wrote:

Educate whom and where? Chakrabarty School of Higher learning? You simply do not get it.

On Monday, August 17, 2015 6:36 PM, "Subimal Chakrabarty [mukto-mona]" <> wrote:

Thanks. O. K, but what do we all need to do? You did not answer that. It should be some thing like this: educate them with scientific knowledge, enlighten them, reform education system, etc. Do you agree? Since banning religions and closing places of worship are not the options, what else can you do? Obviously the law enforcement agencies will handle all such cases in their own way. But common people can only resort to political and cultural movements. And these are already going on although they have not achieved desired goals because of many conflicting political games. 
Let me know if you have some innovative ideas. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 16, 2015, at 8:55 PM, Jiten Roy [mukto-mona] <> wrote:

Sure, here is my response.

Mr. Chakraborty, you are not understanding what you are saying, as usual. I am having a hard time to get this message across you.
In my comments below - I never suggested anything like banning any religion or religious books or prophets or anything, yet you are feeding that line of talk as if I have suggested something like that. Shame on you!
I can see, you did not understand a thing I said. Let me try again. What I said is that - there are good and bad aspects in a religious scripture, and you should have the intellect to recognize that. I do not expect it from a blind-faith follower, but you should.  Unfortunately, you don't, because - whenever someone points to the bad aspects in a religious scripture, you jump into the conversation to show some good aspects to neutralize the dialogue. What you are doing in essence is - you are brushing off the bad aspects of the scripture, without realizing it. Can I expect that you will understand that point now on?  


From: "Subimal Chakrabarty [mukto-mona]" <>
Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2015 12:20 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] The savages!

Then what is your solution? Ban all religious books, prophets, and religions? Please respond. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 16, 2015, at 11:40 AM, Jiten Roy [mukto-mona] <> wrote:

I see - you have learned about religion by reading writings of many great people. If you learn about religion by reading the writings of good people only, you will not know the reality on the ground, which explains your block-headed demeanor about religion. 

Mr. Chakraborty, these nonchalant religious followers are not the problem, as they are not creating the religious conflicts around the world. They cannot fix the problem, created by the radical followers of religion. So, your wife's and your friends' religiosities cannot fix the religious radicalism. Bringing them in the discussion is a cheap way to diminish the extent of religious radicalism, which is a part of the religion also.

From: "Subimal Chakrabarty [mukto-mona]" <>
Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2015 11:58 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] The savages!

I can guess you have read the entire Koran word for word and between lines. I am nowhere near you in this respect. My perception about Islam has been shaped by the writings of authors like Ibrahim Khan, Yakub Ali Chowdhury, Nazrul Islam, Dr. Shahidullah, Gholam Mistafa, Barkatullah, Mir Mosharraf Hossain, and so on. Many bards like Lalon and Sufi poets also have important role in shaping my perception. During my school years I had to read a memoir by Dr. Suniti Chatterjee in which there is a dialog between the author and a very ordinary Muslim co-passenger of the ship. I have grown up with Muslims along with my fellow Hindus. I still have many Muslim friends. Many of them are very religious. Are they not true Muslims? They will claim they are. 

My wife is proud of being a Hindu although he does not follow many things that an orthodox Hindu follows. Is she not a true Hindu? By Manu's standard she is not. If a fundamentalist view of a religion is the true religion, then should we trash the other views and thereby brand them as false Hindus? Why would they tolerate it? We have to see how she interprets her religious teachings and how much she accepts and how much she remains silent about. 

The problem with religion is that it is embedded in our psyche so deeply that it would be almost an impossible proposition to separate it from our lives. The lifelong confirmed atheist Dr. Ahmed Sharif understood this reality quite well. That's why attempts to bury religions by the communists or the proponents of Lokayata (Carvak) philosophy turned out to be boomerang. The best way would be to enlighten people through modern education, not by demeaning his religion but allowing them complete freedom in practicing his own religion in a more and more universally appealing way. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 15, 2015, at 8:01 PM, Abul Kasem [mukto-mona] <> wrote:

Please tell us why these jihadists are not true Muslims.


Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 16:37:05 -0500
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] The savages!

Looks like only Mr. Abul Kasem and Abu-Bakr-Al-Baghdadi have fully understood the Islam preached by Muhammed. 

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On Aug 15, 2015, at 2:04 PM, Abul Kasem [mukto-mona] <> wrote:


He is not savage; he is a true Muslim.

He practices Islam as preached and practiced by Muhammad.

Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 20:39:55 -0400
Subject: [mukto-mona] The savages!



Posted by: Sukhamaya Bain <>

Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:




"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190