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Tuesday, August 9, 2016

Re: [mukto-mona] Re: {PFC-Friends} Indian secularism :One In Every Four Beggars In India Is Muslim



Futility of even trying to correct anybody can lead to fatal result. So, I prefer to remain aloof.


On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 4:06 AM, Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Nice to hear from you, though very short!



From: "Kamal Das kamalctgu@gmail.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 8, 2016 1:27 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: {PFC-Friends} Indian secularism :One In Every Four Beggars In India Is Muslim

 
Beauty of this forum is that even a fool can argue with a savant.

On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 8:45 PM, Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
Captain Syed,
You need to relax your thoughts; you are too blind with your religious thoughts, and you are looking for signs from Allah. This is so bizarre!
I know, I have no jurisdiction to tell you anything about your religion, but your mails are arriving in my mailbox everyday, so I have the right to respond.
Once upon a time, our ancestors were cave-people with no knowledge of science, but, they did not stop thinking for generation after generation to advancement their knowledge, and the result is the modern scientific achievements.
Whatever our prior generations did should not be our only pride, we have to advance their knowledge, and that should be our pride. You are, on the other hand, too obsessed with thousand year old advancements. No one is denying those advancements; they are our proud history, but, at the same time, you must remember, those inventors had to suffer a lot to promote their knowledge also, in some cases, with their lives. All those atrocities occurred only because their inventions went against the established religious thoughts.  Now, you are now trying to thump your chest with pride of those inventions.  If you want to chew on the past scientific achievements, you must chew on Christian/Jewish/Hindu  achievements as well. That's a normal thinking human do.
Also, did you notice, your thoughts stop with Quran. Is that what you are asking every Muslim to do? Relax man!
Jiten Roy



 
Capt. Razzak A. Syed may be an honest man, but he is definitely not a very educated man. His English is so poor that it gives the impression that he is probably educated to no more than Matriculation/SCC/Grade 10 level. Another insidious point that comes out is that he keeps brandishing his rank (which he might have held while in the active service; but he is not in active service any more) to prove that he is not just a pleb - which from his English writing people might think he is - but he is a Captain!
 
However, his blind faith in everything Islam only shows that he has lost the capacity to make independent judgement for himself. He relies, like millions of illiterate and innocent villagers in Bangladesh, on the 'final day of judgement'. If he could express himself in good quality English, his ideas might have carried some credibility. But as it stands, he epitomises a typical intolerant, abusive man hiding behind his non-existent Army rank.


On Saturday, 6 August 2016, 23:28, Razzak Syed <amsmel@aol.com> wrote:


Mr. Asgar,
          Quran wasn't revealed as a printed book from Allah(SWT). When need a medications, you need doctor's advice and the doctor give you advice as per the information described by the manufacturer. You just don't go on the shelves and pick the medicine for respective sickness. 

As per Ulama's, Lokman Hekim was a wiseman and a Hekim(Doctor) whom Allah(SWT) given knowledge, none of the human being would have given. 

Whether I m from Army or Navy, does it matter to you? I am a human being n Ummah of Prophet(SAW), striving hard to follow the order of Allah(SWT). I am just trying to share my knowledge and experience with the fellow human who fears Allah(SWT) and believe in the 'Day of Judgement'. I have no control in any body neither I can be proud of myself, I don't believe that our ancestors were dumbs. Look at 'Mada-e-Salehin', Allah (SWT) given numerous signs of the ability of our ancestors. 

I seek refuge of Allah(SWT), may Allah(SWT) guide us.


Capt. Razzak A. Syed


Sent from my iPhone


On 7 Aug 2016, at 8:01 AM, Msa40 <msa40@aol.com> wrote:

 
Why should I read the Quran with Tafsir when Allah says it is a clear and easy Book for all to understand?
 
Are you a Navy or Army Captain, sir?
 
 
 
Mohammad Asghar
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Razzak Syed <amsmel@aol.com>
To: Msa40 <msa40@aol.com>
Cc: chowdhuryk <chowdhuryk@gmail.com>; pfc-friends <pfc-friends@googlegroups.com> ; bangladesh-progressives <mailto:bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com>; mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>; anisur.rahman1 <anisur.rahman1@btinternet.com >; mahfuzur <mahfuzur@aol.com>; abul88 <abul88@hotmail.com>; skmirza.mirza <skmirza.mirza@gmail.com>
Sent: Sat, Aug 6, 2016 2:45 pm
Subject: Re: {PFC-Friends} Indian secularism :One In Every Four Beggars In India Is Muslim

DH's
    Read Quran with Tafsir. I m not going to waste my time to spoon feed you. Even if I give the evidence, yet you will not believe it, as per Surah 'Al-Maeda',  there were ignorant people like you, who used listen to Prophet (SAW) or the previous prophets brought evidence, who use to deny the truth. 

May Allah(SWT) guide us n protect us from these devils.

Capt. Razzak A. Syed


Sent from my iPhone


On 7 Aug 2016, at 7:19 AM, Msa40 <msa40@aol.com> wrote:

 
 
"... where Allah (SWT) mentioned about invention of Medicine by Lokman (AWS), Hanging Garden, Marble floor of Soleman (AWS), till today your modern
science couldn't figure out how it's done. Also chemical used for Mummy's during Ferro's not known."
 
 
The Hanging Garden is still running and dandy in Saudi Arabia. Marble floor was copied in Masjidul Nabi. Lokman's medicine is still prescribed by the
Muslim doctors. Muslims do use the same chemical, which invented by al-Chemi for the mummification of their dead!
 
The internet Syed is using was invented by Allama al-Saba al-fata al-khala al fana fillah alhaj al-Bukhari Peace be upon him). Harami infidels just copied
and provided it to Muslims like Syed!
 
Salatunia Rasoolallah alaikum
Salamunia Habibullah Alaikum
 
 
Mohammad Asghar
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Razzak Syed <amsmel@aol.com>
To: Khurshed Chowdhury <chowdhuryk@gmail.com>
Cc: pfc-friends <pfc-friends@googlegroups.com> ; bangladesh-progressives googlegroups <bangladesh-progressives@ googlegroups.com>; mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>; ANISUR RAHMAN <anisur.rahman1@btinternet.com >; Mahfuzur Rahman <mahfuzur@aol.com>; Msa40 <msa40@aol.com>; abul88 <abul88@hotmail.com>; skmirza.mirza <skmirza.mirza@gmail.com>
Sent: Sat, Aug 6, 2016 1:54 pm
Subject: Re: {PFC-Friends} Indian secularism :One In Every Four Beggars In India Is Muslim

Mr. KC,
          Al-Chemi and Al-Jubair were Egyptians Muslims born after the prophet (SAW), therefore, their names need not be mentioned in the Quran. 
However, if you are a true muslim, then must have read the Surah 'Lokman',  Surah 'Sabah' where Allah (SWT) mentioned about invention of Medicine by Lokman (AWS), Hanging Garden, Marble floor of Soleman (AWS), till today your modern science couldn't figure out how it's done. Also chemical used for Mummy's during Ferro's not known. 

So don't be proud, your generations aren't only best generation of human being, there more powerful human beings were created n crushed due to their disobedience of Allah(SWT). Be fear of Allah(SWT).

May Allah(SWT) guide us.



Capt. Razzak A. Syed


Sent from my iPhone


On 6 Aug 2016, at 11:05 PM, Khurshed Chowdhury <chowdhuryk@gmail.com> wrote:

I wonder out of which Koranic verses ancient luminaries like: Al-Jubair and Al-Chemi did invent advance science? Could anybody bring those verses or Hadiths, or source from Islamic text books? Also wondering if those ancient luminaries were believers of Islam? I thought—religions are anti-science! I am totally puzzled how science and religion can sleep in the same bed? Could anybody help me?
 
KC
 
 
From: Razzak Syed [mailto:amsmel@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, August 05, 2016 4:28 PM
To: pfc-friends@googlegroups.com
Cc: bangladesh-progressives googlegroups; mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com; ANISUR RAHMAN; Mahfuzur Rahman; Khurshed Chowdhury
Subject: Re: {PFC-Friends} Indian secularism :One In Every Four Beggars In India Is Muslim
 
These bustard's will always argue, even they knows Muslims are like Al-Jubair, Al-Chemi, are the inventors of advance science, that's why Allah(SWT) mentioned several places in the Quran about these ignorants n barbaric:
 
 
"তাদের কেউ কেউ আপনার দিকে কান লাগিয়ে থাকে। আমি তাদের অন্তরের উপর আবরণ রেখে দিয়েছি যাতে একে না বুঝে এবং তাদের কানে বোঝা ভরে দিয়েছি। যদি তারা সব নিদর্শন অবলোকন করে তবুও সেগুলো বিশ্বাস করবে না। এমনকি, তারা যখন আপনার কাছে ঝগড়া করতে আসে, তখন কাফেররা বলেঃ এটি পুর্ববর্তীদের কিচ্ছাকাহিনী বৈ তো নয়।"

06:25
 
Capt. Razzak A. Syed
 
 
Sent from my iPhone
 

On 5 Aug 2016, at 11:41 PM, Shah DeEldar <shahdeeldar@gmail.com> wrote:
"The Chief Rabbi of the United Hebrew Congregations of the Commonwealth had said recently in London that science has a religious dignity. The Archbishop of Canterbury circumvented the conflict by saying that Darwin's theory of evolution is the most enthralling of ideas worthy of embracing. But Islam steadfastly refuses to accept scientific knowledge and values."- A. Rahman
You sum up very well... what really needs to be said politely and forcefully. What is Islamist really afraid of? Truth? How nature works? How it is governed strict natural laws? Can Muslims still afford to be ignorant about our world and universe? Yes as long as they intimidate people not to ask right questions. The current path is very much self defeating and results are finally showing up in the form of poor performance and human miseries.

Muslim leaders have virtually missed all the trains in every sector except going for an illusive and obsolete Islamic purity. Muslims have become whiners than real doers like Jews and Christians. Comically, one single Physics Nobel laureate (Salam) is not even considered as a real Muslim. Some zealots in Pakistan have even defaced his grave stone to dishonor this great mind. Such is the Muslim love for science and a Physics genius? Would it take another century for Muslims to detect the cardinal problem that Jews/Christians detected few centuries ago?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world- asia-29415121

 
On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 12:02 PM, ANISUR RAHMAN <anisur.rahman1@btinternet.com > wrote:
Leaving aside personal insinuation as being the India lover and Bangladesh hater, or the other way round, as some people had been brandishing others, let's get to the crux of the problem. Muslims as a whole are not great achievers. In fact, they are the under-achievers. On the other hand, Jews being less than one hundredth of the number of Muslims have achieved far, far more than the Muslims. 
More than three years ago I published the an article (given below) in the www.bdnews24.com  as an op-ed. Please have a look and see where our problem lies.
 
- AR 
 
 
Why Muslims are retrogressive?
June 13, 2013
Photo: Reuters
It may be iniquitous to compartmentalise monotheistic religions into separate blocks in order to evaluate individual religion's successes and failures. But this is exactly what this article aims to do, notwithstanding the sentimental or emotional attachments of ardent religious adherents. In this pursuit, Islam is going to be taken for the special attention (as the author is a Muslim) to decipher its achievements vis-à-vis other monotheistic religions. The purpose is definitely not to denigrate any religion but to seek out the causes for difference in achievements.
Among the three monotheistic (Abrahamic) religions, Christianity with all its sects and denominations is the largest religious group. Nearly 30 per cent of world population of 7 billion people is Christian (nearly 2 billion). They are also most successful in science and technology, art and literature and in almost all other human intellectual pursuits. But this success does not derive from their numerical advantage but by their willingness to adopt, adapt and assimilate views and ideas of the day. Christianity did go through the internecine religious conflicts over the centuries but those were in the middle ages. Those conflicts were not only between the various factions (or denominations) of the Christian religion but also between the religion and the State. The dawn of 'Age of Enlightenment' led to some sort of tacit understanding between the State and the religion whereby State had become responsible for political, social, economic, military, etc. matters and the religion became the standard bearer of moral codes and numinous attitude of the populace. In other words, religion was not the gate keeper of all things human nor was it the 'be all and end all' of human conscience. In other words, some sort of secularity was instilled in Christian countries.
This separation of duties between State and the religion had released human energy from destructive conflicts to constructive pursuits. Scientific research and development, astronomical advancement, industrial revolution, modern art and literature, are all due to human endeavour devoted to improvement of human knowledge and conditions without the distraction of religious in-fight.
Photo: bdnews24.com (used in 'Does Islam need reforming?'
Leaving Christianity aside, one can say that Islam and Judaism are more or less on the same platform – adherents of both of these religions are extremely devotional and many of them are emotionally attached. So a valid comparison between these two religions may lead to some meaningful conclusions.
Both of these religions originated roughly in the same geographical area — Makkah and Canaan in the Middle East. Needless to say, Judaism is the precursor to Islam and many of the rituals from Judaism had been assimilated in Islam, either verbatim or with some modifications. The Jewish prophets – Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses and so forth are also prophets in Islam. The commonality between Islam and Judaism is remarkable.
Despite these ancestral links, these two religions have mutual antipathy and divergent outlook. In political, social, economic and technical fields as well as in arts and literature or any other field of human endeavour, Jews have been far more successful than the Muslims. How did this wide disparity between these two religious adherents come about in the present-day world? This disparity in achievement becomes even acute when the numbers of Muslims and Jews of the present day world are taken into account.
There are 1,500 million Muslims in the world as against only 15 million Jews. Thus for every single Jew in the world, there are nearly 100 Muslims. Whereas in 49 sovereign States in the world, Muslims are in majority and run those States, there is only one State — Israel — where Jews are in majority and run that State. There are countries such as Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Iran and so forth where more than 99 per cent of the population are Muslims. Even in some non-Muslim countries there are large Muslim population. There are about 6 million Jews in Israel and over 8 million in north and south Americas. There are some 1,000,000 or so Jews scattered around European countries and in other countries such as Egypt, Syria and Lebanon.
One measure of achievement by these two religious groups can be judged by the number of Nobel prizes received by them. The Nobel prizes, the most prestigious awards in the world, are awarded in Physics, Chemistry, Medicine, Literature and Peace Studies since 1901 and in Economics since 1969. The Jews received more than 22 per cent of all Nobel prizes, although they constitute just over 0.2 per cent of world population. Last year, Jews received Nobel prizes in both physics (shared) and chemistry (shared). Altogether Jews received 173 Nobel prizes until today, while carrying out research works in various countries, sometimes under hostile conditions. On the other hand, Muslims received only 10 Nobel prizes, (1 in Physics, 1 in Chemistry, 2 in literature and 6 in peace studies), while making up 20 per cent of the world population. It may be noted that the peace prizes are awarded primarily on socio-political grounds which have impacts on the society, not so much on intellectual prowess. If peace studies are excluded from the tally of prizes, Jews had hauled 164 prizes whereas Muslims had only 4 prizes. Thus the Jews are more than 40 times more successful in winning Nobel prizes (excluding peace prizes) than the Muslims, although constituting only one hundredth of Muslim population!
But this shear number of Nobel prizes does not do full justice to the contributions the Jews had made to the world of science. Albert Einstein, the most celebrated and influential scientist, was a Jew. Other most renowned Jewish physicists were Wolfgang Pauli (Pauli Exclusion Principle), Niels Bohr (Bohr Atomic Model), Max Born (Quantum Theorist), Richard Feynman (Quantum Mechanics) – all of them made monumental contributions to modern physics. Sigmund Freud, Karl Marx, Milton Friedman were also Jews. The contributions the Jews made in the fields of science and literature are truly astounding.
The reason why Jews are highly successful may be that they have high respect for knowledge and they have single minded approach to success. Jews during the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries were dispersed throughout the whole of Europe as they had no homeland of their own and their survival in the society depended on their success. During the early part of 20th century, the Jews excelled in science and literature in Germany, Austria, Czech Republic, Italy, the UK and so forth. Almost all the reputable German academic institutions were headed by Jews in the 1920s and 1930s, all major medical establishments were under Jewish control, art and literature were dominated by Jews. Their domination was so complete that Hitler realised that German supremacy and Aryan culture could not be revived without getting rid of Jews. He used to view Jews as leeches, which suck out life blood from the host body. The Nazi regime started deporting and exterminating Jews. The Gottingen University, the cradle of quantum mechanics, was completely dominated by Jewish physicists and mathematicians. The Nazi minister of education asked David Hilbert, a prominent non-Jew mathematician in charge of the Institution, that whether it was true that the Institution suffered from the departure of Jews and their friends. "Suffered? No, Herr Minister, it did not suffer. It just does not exist anymore", replied Prof Hilbert.
As against such excellence among the Jews in the 19th and 20th centuries (as well as in the 21st century), the Muslims throughout the world had moved in the opposite direction. Instead of striving for excellence in human endeavour, they shunned the western science, education, literature and culture. In the Indian Subcontinent in the 19th century, Muslims, as a show of defiance to British Raj, took the conscious decision to boycott British education and adopted religious education instead. Only during the beginning of 20th century, Muslims realised that without education they could not rid themselves of the colonial yoke and they accepted education reluctantly.
Many of the Muslim theologians of today, taking cue from the past when Islam was at the forefront of science and civilization, advocate going back to the roots and adopt religion whole heartedly. Hardly do they realise that when Islam was at the forefront during the 9th to 13th centuries, they adopted science and technology, art and literature of the day whole heartedly and pursued them vigorously; they did not seek out scientific knowledge from the holy book of Quran and Hadith. Due to lapse of attention during the fading years of Islamic glory, the mantle of science and civilization had slipped away from the Muslims to the western world.
The other two religions (Christianity and Judaism) tacitly accepted the reality of the modern world and positioned them accordingly. The Chief Rabbi of the United Hebrew Congregations of the Commonwealth had said recently in London that science has a religious dignity. The Archbishop of Canterbury circumvented the conflict by saying that Darwin's theory of evolution is the most enthralling of ideas worthy of embracing. But Islam steadfastly refuses to accept scientific knowledge and values.
 
————————-
Dr A. Rahman is an author of a graduate and post-graduate text book for British and European Universities and a columnist on scientific and social issues.
 
On Wednesday, 3 August 2016, 16:22, Post Card <abahar.canada@gmail.com> wrote:
 
He didn't get it!
Ha, ha, ha, the elderly p is losing his neuron connections.
 
On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 11:05 AM, Shah DeEldar <shahdeeldar@gmail.com> wrote:
The cruel truth has been delivered  Being perpetually witless and shameless creatures would not bring riches and prosperity unless people start robbing and plundering others. But, then again, we live in 21st century, where Knowledge is the key and not an impotent God!. 
 



On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 10:43 AM, Post Card <abahar.canada@gmail.com> wrote:
THIS INDIA LOVER!
Do you need a fraud, in this case an elderly fraud with a fake name to explain the difference between right and wrong? What a shameless mouth or simply no mouth but...? This mukto mona (wrongly understood) man doesn't get it but can reply to us only using abusive terms!!!!
 
On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 9:58 AM, Shah DeEldar <shahdeeldar@gmail.com> wrote:
God fearing alone does not bring knowledge and prosperity! Count how many Jews have gotten Nobel prizes so far for their contributions to the world knowledge and prosperity with lesser God fearing. Does it ring any bell where the problem lies?
 
On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 3:41 AM, RANU CHOWDHURY <ranu51@hotmail.com> wrote:
"This is what blind faith makes a man - a beggar."--AR 
 
This remark is an insult  to one billion god fearing Muslims the world over.
 
 

From: 'javed helali' via PFC-Friends <pfc-friends@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2016 1:49 AM
To: pfc-friends@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {PFC-Friends} Indian secularism :One In Every Four Beggars In India Is Muslim
 
There was a Sachar Commission report a few tears back. If the GOI  had implemented at least some of the recommendati0ons, the percentage of Muslim beggars could very well have been lower.
 
 

From: ANISUR RAHMAN <anisur.rahman1@btinternet.com >
To: "pfc-friends@googlegroups.com" <pfc-friends@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2016 3:31 AM
Subject: Re: {PFC-Friends} Indian secularism :One In Every Four Beggars In India Is Muslim
 
I think, there is no fantastic message in this report. The 20 per cent Muslims make up 25 per cent beggars, what is so abnormal in it? If anything, it only shows that the Muslims are lazy, don't want to work and have chosen the path of begging in the name of God. 
The man in the picture seems to be quite in good health. But wearing tupi and good clothes, he gives the impression of a respectable man. But probably he has no vocation, no knowledge, except ability to recite some Quranic verses (without understanding) and praying to God. This is what blind faith makes a man - a beggar. 
 
- AR 
 
On Saturday, 30 July 2016, 6:18, Isha Khan <bdmailer@gmail.com> wrote:
 
One In Every Four 'Beggars' In India Is Muslim: Report
An elderly man sits along a street as he waits for alms in Srinagar August 8, 2007. REUTERS/Adnan Abidi
Nearly 25 percent of the 3.7 lakh Indians categorised as "beggars" in the 2011 Census are Muslim, according to data released last month, reported The Indian Express. That's a total of 92,760 Muslim beggars in India.
While most of beggars in India are Hindus—about 72.2 percent—Hindus are also the majority religious group in India, accounting for almost four-fifths of the country's population. The number of Muslim beggars is significant as compared to their overall population in India, which stands at 17.22 crore as per the last Census.
A majority of the Muslim beggars are women, which is contrary to the national trend, where there are fewer women beggars compared to men.
Earlier, reports have indicated that Muslims have the lowest living standard in India, and spend less than 33 every day. The steadily increasing Muslim population in India is neglected, reported The Economist.
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