CPN(Maoist) ideologue's interview to DNA suggests a distinct pro-India line which may not be just tactical. Rather he is more cautious towards China.
Please find the interview herewith.
Sankar Ray
Borders will be regulated: Baburam Bhattarai By Josy Joseph 21Apr 08(http://www.dnaindia.com/dnaprint.asp?newsid=1160629)
Full Interview:Dr Baburam Bhattarai, the Maoist ideologue and an architect with a JNU doctorate, is set to play a crucial role in writing the new Constitution for the democratic republic of Nepal.
If the Maoist proposal for an executive presidency goes through, Bhattarai would be the prime minister, and his mentor Prechanda, the chief of Communist Party of Nepal (Maoist), would be the president of Nepal.
With their emphatic victory in the elections, the former armed rebels of Nepal are set to take this impoverished nation into a new era.
Over a cup of warm lemon tea at his temporary residence on a hilltop in Kathmandu, Bhattarai discussed with DNA's Josy Joseph their policy proposals to usher in rapid economic growth to Nepal. This is the first detailed media interview the Maoist leadership has given to any media outlet on their governance plan for Nepal.
You are very clear about declaring Nepal a republic, and one of the first steps of the Constituent Assembly would be to remove the monarchy. How are you going to handle the royal assets, and other issues related to the proposal?
Nepal will be a democratic republic, it has already been decided. It is only to be executed. The first meeting of the Constituent Assembly will do that. 'Decide' is not the word, execution it is.
Only the technical matter is left, how it should be done, so we are now holding discussion with various parties. And if need be, we can hold discussions with the king also, if he can suggest a way to leave the scene, for a peaceful settlement of the issue.
About his assets, all his legitimate personal assets he can keep. But as a monarch, as a king, there are a lot of national properties, assets used by the king that would be national property.
What are these national assets?
Palaces, land, jungles, etc, which have been part of the royal family, but they would be nationalised. The present king was a businessman earlier, so he can keep them. Resorts and so on, whatever he wants from them he can keep.
Even if he is forced out of power, the king could remain a rallying point for dissident groups, isn't it? It could hamper your efforts at building a democratic republic. How would you handle such a possibility? Would you want him to leave Nepal?
He shouldn't be that, because overwhelming majority of the people, 99% of them has voted in favour of a democratic republic.
So there is no chance for restoration of any sort of monarchy in Nepal.
Even then, some reactionary elements would try to create trouble. That would be unfortunate, and it won't be to his benefit also. So we hope that he wouldn't commit that mistake. If he lives as a private citizen in Nepal, engaged in his private, commercial activities, etc, then we would allow that. It is up to him, whether he wants to stay in Nepal or go out.
There have been complaints about your PLA (Peoples Liberation Army-armed wing of Maoists) and YCL (Young Communist League- youth wing) creating trouble during elections.
Prime minister Koirala has suggested that you must immediately dissolve PLA appropriately. Security sector reforms are also very critical for your long term legitimacy as a political force.
This has already been settled, it is part of the comprehensive peace process. There will be integration of the PLA and the NA (Nepalese Army), and a new security apparatus would be created. All these have been settled in principle, only now it has to be executed in practice.
Would you like the Army to be involved in the entire process of this integration?
Army should follow the decision of the government. Army is not an autonomous body, but a part of the government.
must be no dispute on that.
Related to it is the question of the present leadership of the Nepalese Army. For years they have been involved, at
the behest of the palace, in fighting Maoists. Would you look at action against them for atrocities against the PLA
and others?
There is a difference. We were fighting against the monarchy, and the Army was used by the monarchy. Now the monarchy isgone, the scenario has totally changed.
So you have no problems with the Army leadership?
We would like to restructure the whole state apparatus, including the Army, bureaucracy and judiciary. As part of the
restructuring there could be some changes, but there won't be any individual witch-hunting. The whole system would bechanged, democratized.
You said about restructuring. Do you have any model in mind?
Our state was a unitary state. Now it will be a federal state. When we are a federal state, then bureaucracy, judiciary, police,military-all will have to reorganise for the federal system. In that context there would be some restructuring. The whole statestructure was created to serve an autocratic monarchy.
So you will constitute a commission to look at this federalisation?
Yes, we will form a commission. And then we will go into details and based on its recommendation we will implement the process. Once the government is formed we will form the restructuring commission.
You have in the past shown interesting in understanding governance structure of Switzerland and some
Scandinavian countries. Is there any specific model in mind for Nepal?
We will draw lessons from various countries. But we will develop our own model, we will not follow any one model.
Over the past few years there has been a huge flight of capital out of Nepal. You have been trying to reassure
business community about protecting their interests. But how will you ensure that capital stays put in Nepal,
while protecting your core support group of peasants and rural workers?
What we want to reform is the feudal system, which we want to change. We want to develop a national economy, there is nocontradiction. If there is economic development, we will provide jobs to the unemployed and use the surplus labour from theagricultural sector into the industrial sector. It will be good for the agricultural sector peasantry.
You are looking at a massive industrialisation?
Yes, our whole focus will be on industrialisation of the country. We will invite investors, but of course we would like to encourage domestic investors. Apart from that we would need foreign capital also. We need massive infrastructure, road networks, rail networks, hydro projects.
Do you have any projected economic growth for the coming years?
We have asked our economists to work on it. Since we have to bring about a miraculous growth, since we have to bring about a massive economic revolution. For that we have asked our friends to start on models.
Nepal Army is a very colonial Army, which still treats the Indian Army chief as a honourary General, and the
Nepalese Army chief is a honourary General in Indian Army, etc. What is your take on such practices?
These are old fashioned practices. They will fade away with time, I think. These are not big deal.
India has also been providing subsidized military assistance to Nepal Army. In your view, is there a need for it
now that the situation has changed here?
It will depend on the overall restructuring of the security sector. We will discuss on that.
The Army will remain?
Some sort of Army will remain. We will decide what should be the size of the Army, what form of the Army, etc.
And then you will work out the kind of relationship with the Indian Army?
Yeah.
What about the large number of Gurkha soldiers serving in Indian and British Armies? Would you put a blanket
ban on it?
No, we are not talking of banning. Our aim is to go in for massive industrialisation so that will provide employment opportunity within the country so that our people are not forced to migrate and join armies. Then it will automatically stop.
What should be done to Narayanhiti Palace, that imposing symbol in Kathmandu of Nepal monarchy?
It is my personal opinion that it would be ideal for a historic museum. It is part of history, so people can go in and look up.
Could you elaborate about your concept of executive presidency?
We would want to have an executive president, with a prime minister and cabinet, with a power-sharing between the president and prime minister. We would like to follow this system. In the interim period, until we have a new constitution we will have to work in consultation with other parties. If there is a political consensus we would like to follow a presidential model. In case that doesn't happen we will have to find something in between presidential and prime-ministership.
Can you explain a little more about the governance concept?
There are some models existing, like in France. There is a president and there is a prime minister. President will be directly elected by the people, and the prime minister will be elected by the legislature. In US, there is only a president, in Britain there is an executive prime ministership. Our model will be something closer to France, and even Sri Lanka.
And you have proposed 11 autonomous regions for the federal republic that you are proposing?
Yes, the autonomous regions will be governed by their governors and chief ministers. The governors would be directly elected by the people.
Food prices are soaring, and you don't have any PDS system here, throwing the poor to the mercy of market.
We will have to look at it. We are thinking that PDS system must be introduced in Nepal so that people below poverty line getessential food items.
In response to the food price increase, India has banned export of food items, and it seems to be having negative
fallout on Nepal.
We will talk to the Indian government about that, we hope something positive comes out of it. We have very close relations with India. And unless and until we have a good understanding with India it is very difficult to have positive outcomes.
Are you going to Delhi soon?
We haven't decided yet.
The big debate in Delhi is about your relations with China, especially the right wing believes you are very close to
the Chinese. How are you going to manage your relations with India and China?
These are all absurd rumours spread by vested interests. We will have very good relations with India because our economy is very closely linked to India. And politically, socially and culturally we have very close ties with India, and that will continue. So there is no reason to doubt that once Maoists come to power, Nepal will get closer to China. That is not true. Of course, being an independent, sovereign country we will have good relations with all our neighbours including China. But practically, we have to deal more with India. That way our relations with India will be very cordial.
But you have been demanding review of the Indo-Nepal friendship treaty of 1950. What is the core of your
demands, though many Indian officials point out that it is heavily biased in favour of Nepal?
The 1950 treaty was signed 60 years back when there was no democracy in Nepal. So there are colonial hang ups in the
treaty. Time has changed, democracy has come in, and people's aspirations have changed so we have to update it for the times. There are certain provisions like treating each others' citizens equal, with open borders. There is one billion people in India and just 20 million here.
You are not comfortable with the present open borders?
These open borders will be regulated. It is because of these open borders that there are a lot of irritants today. There is a lot of smuggling going on, lot of illegal transactions going on. There have to be some control, so if we have regulated borders these things can be controlled. There should be some checkpoints for transactions. Both are suffering today, both Nepal and India.
And the travel between the two countries?
Today, with any government ID one can come into Nepal and vice versa. There should be some regulation, the records must be maintained. The details can be worked out. These things will be worked out based on mutual consultations. There is no reason for alarm.
What is your stand on the hydro power projects along the border? Recently two Indian firms have been awarded
hydro-power projects on Nepal side. Would you want to review them?
We have a huge water potential. We want to harness our hydro power potential. We need big capital, and modern technology.
So without inviting foreign capital we cannot exploit it. In that sense we welcome all investors, especially from India because all our electricity will have to be exported to India.
We have nothing against Indian companies, and the government. What we are saying is that these contracts must be awarded in a very open manner. There is a lot of corruption, underhand dealings in these contracts today. That must be done away with. We will encourage and welcome Indian companies to invest in Nepal.
Nepal is completely dependent on India for its petroleum products and still owes the Indian Oil Corporation huge debt. You have had fuel riots here in the past. What action on that front?
All our petroleum products come from India today. We are going to remove this. We will look into this.
Corruption has been a key issue in your agenda.
There is big corruption here. We will appoint a commission to look into the issue of corruption, and it will be dealt with
severely. We will create a mechanism to deal with corruption.
What is your message to the Indian Maoists who still continue to fight the Indian state, shunning democratic
methods?
You see Maoism is a science of revolution. It has to be applied according to the concrete condition of the local country. We applied it in Nepal in our own way. We don't want to preach to anybody what to do, and what not to do. We wouldn't like to interfere in their affairs. We would be happy to share with them our lessons if they want to. But it is up to them.
The New Delhi security establishment keeps harping about the red-corridor from South India to Nepal and your
close linkages with ndian Maoists. How deep is it?
That is not true, that is not at all true. Some reactionary forces are trying to create alarm. That is not true.
You have had no contact at all with Indian Maoists?
Ideological, political relations we have had. But apart from that we have had no material relations with them.
Your party is heavily dominated by two individuals - Prachanda and you. How are you going to prevent the party
from slipping into an oligarchy?
Ours is a democratic party, we have learnt lessons from the experience of Soviet Union and China. What has happened in the 20th century we cannot repeat in the 21st century.
So we have developed the concept of democracy in the 21st century, so we had to democratise our party and democratise our state. In that way, we are not going to follow the old system followed elsewhere, but develop our own system of democracy for Nepal.
Nepal has for all these decades almost completely ignored Dalits in high seats of power, and very marginally
accommodated women. What about you?
We have given the best representation to women and Dalits. For the first time in the history of Nepal, there are so many Dalits in Parliament. In the parliamentary history of Nepal just one Dalit has been elected in the past.
Now, eight Dalits have been elected this time and all are from our party. Out of the 26 women elected so far, 23 are from our party. So that way we have given huge fillip to the representation of the oppressed classes in governance.
Nepal has a very strong oligarchy, and welfare has seldom gone beyond Kathmandu Valley. The first thing is the federal restructuring of the country so that all the regions get their own governments and autonomy.
Economic activities we will spread into various parts of the country, rather than getting it centralized in Kathmandu.
Are you looking at developing SEZs in the lines of India?
Whatever lessons have to be learnt we will. But we will not blindly copy any other model.
You have always maintained that the royal massacre of June 2001 was an international conspiracy. Are you
ordering a fresh and comprehensive probe into it?
See it was a huge conspiracy and it is now part of history. Since it is part of history we should know the actual facts. Ratherthan going by rumours we want to know facts. So there could be a commission to inquire into the entire episode.
There is a talk of compulsory military training for youth of the country. Can you elaborate further on that?
Our own idea is that since we are a small country sandwiched between two giants, China and India, we don't need a big standing Army. That would be a big economic burden, a mistake.
In stead of that we have a small standing Army and then we can give military training to all the adult members of the society.
That would be better for the security of the country. This is the idea we have, but after the new constitution is formed we will follow it. So the general idea is that we will have a small standing Army and give military training to all the adults in the society.
But when you merge the PLA with the Nepalese Army it would significantly increase the military strength isn't it?
We had about 30,000 PLA cadres. The UN has verified and registered over 20,000. We will restructure the whole thing so we can reduce the number of standing Army and raise some other forces, say industrial security force, border security force etc.
There are a significant number of analysts, both within the Indian government and outside, who believe that a
Nepal with monarchy and Nepali Congress as dominant party was better from New Delhi's perspective. How would
you like to respond to this assessment, especially since you have consistently accused India of being part of
various conspiracies in Nepal?
We would like to convey to our friends in India that there is a political change in Nepal but there is no reason to get alarmed.Democratic Nepal want to have a good relations with India, we want to work in close coordination with the government of India.
Some disgruntled elements will try to create misunderstanding. We must talk to each other wherever there is
misunderstanding. In the days to come, we are very confident, that we would have a very good relation with India. I wish we get full cooperation from India and its people. Indian businessmen have played a crucial role in Nepal.
In the days to come there would be better environment here for investment. We will invite them here. There is no reason to get panicky, or doubt our policies. It will be totally investor friendly atmosphere in Nepal. We want rapid economic growth in Nepal, we want to create more jobs in Nepal, we want to upgrade the basic life standards of our people, and keeping all that in mind we will invite foreign investment.
How big a role did India play in facilitating your coming over-ground and joining the political mainstream?
Basically it was a homegrown process, it was our own initiative. Indian government played quite a positive role, they didn't interfere. And they tried to facilitate the political dialogue when it started between the political parties. We have always appreciated that.
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