>>>>>>>>>>> All critics are welcome but making up facts to spread hate is known as "Hate mongering". Pam Geller has done it over and over when talking about Islam. For example she made so much of an "Non existing ground zero mosque" that, I was amazed how people were mislead. It took a while before people caught up with her web of lies about "Fictional ground zero mosque".
As you know there are no mosques on "Ground zero" and no one even proposed. Local Muslims were working on a new community center around two blocks from ground zero but who cares forthose pesky little details?
She kept on it and there are some very well known people who are spreading false information on Islam SYSTEMATICALLY as a project.
what are 'justice' and 'injustice,' and who determines them – government/Quran/Gita/Bible/Torah?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thou shall not steal is a command found in Torah/OT. It is an universal value. There are plenty of "Values" we can all agree on. Just look at US constitution. It was written by some good Christians and most of the world can agree on most of it. So it is not difficult to find common ground if one is willing.
So you see, one person's justice could be other person's injustice.
>>>>>>>>> Fortunately in most cases it is NOT true.
- how to deal with people who disagree with your religious views; some of those prescriptions are very harsh to those who do not conform to the principles of Quran.
>>>>>>>>> I am always open to learn new things. Kindly give me some specific examples and I'll explore it with you. :-)
Therefore, if you just run with this one verse, you will have misguided notion about the reality.
>>>>>>>>> You are reading too much into what I said. ALL I said that, this ONE verse is beautiful and everyone can agree on (Strive to establish justice even if I have to go against my own people).
NO one is trying to change Harvard into an "Islamic university" by sharing one simple quote. :-D
Therefore, even though this verse says leave those non-believers alone, it may not be effective among believers,
>>>>>>>> Simply re-read the verse. It is talking TO Muslims and asking them to be fair (Establish justice) with everyone.
It's like one of those Middle Eastern broadcasts - sending one message to English-speaking audiences and a different message to non-English-speaking audiences.
>>>>>>>>> Well CNN, Time magazine and most US publications have many different editions as well. Personally I am not a fan of such practice but I equally don't like double talks from Muslims either. But that has more to do with locality, culture, customs etc than any religion.
>>>>>>> OK, fair enough.
They are afraid – it will convey misinformation. Can you blame them as Islam-haters?
>>>>>>>>>> Personally before I call someone Islam-haters, I spend time on them BEFORE I say something like that. Pam Geller Gang has been well researched and documented to spread misinformation and fear about Islam and Muslims. You cannot expects to tolerate Nazis by Jews.
'Talk Back To Hate' Campaign
Falsehood and truth are seperate and DIFFERENT. [ Source: Al Qur'an 2;256 ]
There is always one more thing in all religious scriptures to confuse people.
>>>>>>>>> After over two hundred years, US constitution still confuses millions of people. Fortunately no one says that, Americans do not need any constitution. If few verses of the Qur'an is hard to understand, feel free to ask for an explanation.
Shalom/peace.
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Jan 23, 2013 6:22 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: Harvard University places at its entrance verse from Quran as best example of justice
"Those who have irrational hate about Islam, they would "Invent" issues if necessary. The beautiful verse from the Qur'an is an example of "Universality" of the message Qur'an delivered to us."
From: QR <qrahman@netscape.net>
Subject: [mukto-mona] Fwd: Harvard University places at its entrance verse from Quran as best example of justice
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, January 22, 2013, 8:50 AM
Pam Geller came "Unglued" with such a beautiful passage, I wanted to ask her if English was her first or second language!!
Folks, read the passage for yourself and ask yourself where it says anything against Jews, Christians or Hindus? Rather it has been a command to Muslims to establish "Justice" even if requires speaking up against our own families.
Which ended with a warning (For Muslims) NOT to distort justice and staying firm to just actions.
Pamela Geller says, "But the dhimmi lemmings at the Harvard Law School don't know that, or don't care. And so they perpetrate this misleading whitewash of Islamic "justice".
When we discuss "Islamic justice", we have to go by what the books says about it. Any attempt to distortion by Muslims would be punished by our Maker.
Shalom!
From: Isha Khan <bdmailer@gmail.com>
To: undisclosed-recipients:;
Sent: Tue, Jan 22, 2013 5:38 pm
Subject: Harvard University places at its entrance verse from Quran as best example of justice
At the main entrance to Harvard Law School, a text from a verse in the Koran Chapter "The Women" was placed, presenting it as one of the greatest examples of justice in history. This step of the most authoritative US University is met by strong dissatisfaction of Islamophobes.
A Harvard student, a native of Saudi Arabia, Abdullah Jumma, photographed the text at the entrance and posted it on his Twitter page. This was reported by a Saudi paper Ajel in Arabic.
The text of the verse reads:
(The Holy Quran, Chapter 4. "The Women", verse 135).
Upon learning that the verse from the Koran was posted at Harvard as an example of a higher justice, American Islamophobes expressed their outrage and attacked the Koran and Sharia.
On Atlas Shrugs, a website of the initiator of numerous anti-Muslim campaigns in America, Pamela Geller, "evidence" was posted against Islam, consisting of Koranic texts taken out of context and their interpretation by Islamic scholars. The Islamophobe announced that the Sharia is contrary to "human values".
"The Constitution is the great shining moment of Western civilization, based on individual rights, the premise of which is the opposite of Islamic law", claims Geller.She calls the Sharia "a comprehensive legal system governing every aspect of human life, and asserts authority over non-Muslims".
Claiming that "discrimination against non-Muslims, primarily Jews and Christians, is part and parcel of the Koran's concept of justice", Pamela Geller says, "But the dhimmi lemmings at the Harvard Law School don't know that, or don't care. And so they perpetrate this misleading whitewash of Islamic "justice". Pamela Geller is a self-proclaimed human rights activist and director of the center "Stop Islamization of America".
The Harvard University was founded in Cambridge, Massachusetts, in 1636, and is the oldest and most prestigious university in the United States.
http://kavkazcenter.com/eng/content/2013/01/16/17265.shtml
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Wednesday, January 23, 2013
Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: Harvard University places at its entrance verse from Quran as best example of justice
Why do I hear the same accusation from you whenever someone criticizes anything about Islam?
I believe - complain is not about this particular verse at all, complain is about the impression it creates
-----Original Message-----
Why do I hear the same accusation from you whenever someone criticizes anything about Islam? You know that - everybody do not follow Islam or care about Islam. That does not mean they necessarily hate Islam.
Anyway, let's come to the point about the display of this verse.
We have to remember - first, there is nothing wrong with the quote, per se. Second, it did not just appear there by the grace of God; somebody had to pay heftily to put up this quote on the Harvard Campus.
Why is there controversy over such an innocuous quote? Now, what are 'justice' and 'injustice,' and who determines them – government/Quran/Gita/Bible/Torah? So you see, one person's justice could be other person's injustice. Since we cannot decide on them, we are bound to have disagreement, even among family members. Now what we do with the disagreement? Actually, this verse says what to do when you have disagreement - you stick to whatever you believe in, and leave others alone; Allah will deal with them. I like everything up to here. But, things get complicated after that.
I wish there were no other verses on this subject in the Quran, but – it is not so, unfortunately. Quran has many other verses (prescriptions) also as to - how to deal with people who disagree with your religious views; some of those prescriptions are very harsh to those who do not conform to the principles of Quran. If someone choose to follow one of those harsher prescriptions to deal with non-conformers, for whatever reason, could you blame him/her?
Therefore, if you just run with this one verse, you will have misguided notion about the reality. Also, we still have blasphemy law to shun dissenting voices, and many other discriminatory practices to deal with non-believers.
Therefore, even though this verse says leave those non-believers alone, it may not be effective among believers, who know other verses also. In other words, it will just convey misinformation to non-believers. It's like one of those Middle Eastern broadcasts - sending one message to English-speaking audiences and a different message to non-English-speaking audiences.
I believe - complain is not about this particular verse at all, complain is about the impression it creates. They are afraid – it will convey misinformation. Can you blame them as Islam-haters?
Thanks.
Jiten Roy
--- On Tue, 1/22/13, QR <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
Those who have irrational hate about Islam, they would "Invent" issues if necessary. The beautiful verse from the Qur'an is an example of "Universality" of the message Qur'an delivered to us.
>>>>>>>> Could not believe my own eyes that, such a beautiful verse can arouse such an ugly response from hate-mongers.
-----Original Message-----
Harvard University places at its entrance verse from Quran as best example of justice
"O you who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest you swerve, and if you distort justice or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well-acquainted with all that you do."
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