Subj: Le General Date: 4/11/2008 8:17:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time From: IJAZMIAN To: IJAZMIAN Right-click picture(s) to display picture options
A full General is worth Rs 500 million+Dr. Ayesha Siddiqa is a scholar of Pakistan's military and security affairs and a regular contributor to several Pakistani and internationally renowned opinion journals. Currently she is a fellow at the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars in Washington, DC where she is busy writing her latest book "Military Inc, The Politics of Military's Economy in Pakistan". In it, she analyzes Pakistan military's vast commercial interests and its economic predation since 1953.
Ayesha Siddiqa also writes on Pakistan's military affairs for Jane's Information Group. She was asked to work as the Director of Naval Research with the Navy making her the first civilian and woman to work at that position in the Pakistan defense establishment. She has a doctorate in War Studies from King's College, London in 1996.
despardes.com's Editor-in-Chief Irshad Salim conducted a two-part online interview with her on the subject of her upcoming book, Pakistan affairs and post 9/11 scenario.
Following are the excerpts of the first part of the online interview:irshadsalim28: So what is this book about?
asidd66: This book is about military business operations with a case study of Pakistan.
irshadsalim28: What about Bangladesh and India?
asidd66: Bangladesh has it to but not India
irshadsalim28: So what prompted you to write this book?
asidd66: I was a civil servant. During the course of my work I had to deal with numbers of military spending and doing that one slowly realized that a lot was hidden. It is the search for numbers that took me in this direction. The other thing is that it is essential to understand the dynamics of the institution that virtually controls Pakistan's past, present and future.
irshadsalim28: Ok so who did you work for as a civil servant?
asidd66: I joined the civil service in 1988 and left in 2001. Served in military accounts, defense audit and later the navy.
irshadsalim28: Going back to Pak army biz, what are your findings?
asidd66: Several. First, the military has become predatory engaging in political and economic predation. Second, political predation is not complete without economic predation. Third, military has mutated into a separate class that shares interests with other members of the ruling elite. Finally, because the military protects its vested interests, it leads to alienation of the masses.
irshadsalim28: When did all this start?
asidd66: It dates back to the early 1950s. The business ventures were started with the establishing of the first foundation called the Fauji Foundation in 1953. This was established with the war veteran's rehabilitation fund of Rs. 18 million.
irshadsalim28: Why do u consider forming Fauji Foundation a predatory step by the army?
asidd66: Listen you have to understand the concept. A politically strong entity that engages in political predation needs to feel economically or financially autonomous. This completes the picture of predation. The generals thought that they wanted to establish independent means of providing for their welfare and not depending on the civilians like it happened in India. The financial autonomy gradually created the logic for greater interest in political control.
irshadsalim28: Give me one or two instances when the 1953 move swirled into predation.
asidd66: It started right then with Ayub Khan and his cabal getting agricultural land and establishing independent means for themselves.
Look at Ayub Khan. He not only got several squares of agricultural land in Sindh, he also established his sons into business. Look at the entire lot of generals at the moment. a Major General has a legal worth of about Rs. 300 million. These are conservative estimates.
irshadsalim28: Going back to Pak army's economic superpower...What percentage of the GDP and GNP is it?
asidd66: This is difficult to calculate but their own estimates are about 4 % of GDP. I would say that their share in private sector assets is about 7-10 percent of private sector assets. This is a large number for any single group.
irshadsalim28: Can you translate that into crores?
asidd66: 7-10 percent of private sector assets cannot be translated but I can give you another figure: They are worth about Rs. 200 billion. It is just the business. If you put in real estate then we are talking about a Rs 1 trillion plus economy.
irshadsalim28: You mean Pak army's side economy?
asidd66: Yes. This includes real estate, businesses done by subsidiaries, organizations and individuals. You have to understand that this economy is predatory by nature because it does not accept any form of civilian control over it. It is independent in terms of planning, appropriation of funds, etc.
irshadsalim28: If Pak army's assets total Rs 1 trillion can they fund Pakistan's annual budget wholly or partially if they have to?
asidd66: This would, converting these resources into liquid assets and then it would be possible to pay. A lot of these resources are state resources that could provide for military expenditure and more. It is difficult to say that this money would fund the entire budget. Of course, it can but over what period? These assets were acquired over time and their value should be added to the annual defense budget.
irshadsalim28: What was the defense budget for the year 2001?
asidd66: 131 billion. If u add these numbers the budget would escalate to over Rs. 400 billion
irshadsalim28: When u left in 2001 how many generals, etc were there who form the command structure of Pak forces?
asidd66: Brigadier and up would be a few hundred.
irshadsalim28: So if we assume 100 then 100 times 300 million = 30 billion is the legal worth of army's command structure correct?
asidd66: it is more but don't get into these fancy numbers.. plus the higher you go the more pricy you become. A full general is worth Rs 500 million plus
irshadsalim28: Have you in the process of writing your book researched the worth of those generals who "wrote history" of Pakistan
asidd66: Which ones are you referring to?
irshadsalim28: Ayub, Yayha, Zia, Musa, Tikka, et al
asidd66: I do not intend writing a sensational thriller
irshadsalim28: How much land does the forces own in each province?
asidd66: Difficult to bifurcate but to give you a taste - they own about 7-9 million acres in Punjab alone
irshadsalim28: What percentage is it of whole of Punjab?
asidd66: I am still trying to figure this out. It is not an issue of what percentage is this of Punjab but that a major portion of state land is appropriated by one group
irshadsalim28: What about Sindh?
asidd66: My sense is that it is less in Sindh
irshadsalim28: Why is that?
asidd66: Most of the land is around the 2 barrages constructed after independence. Because they didn't make new barrages.
irshadsalim28: What is their modus operandi in getting these lands allotment
asidd66: 10 % of land, according to the colonization of land Act 1912, is allotted to the military
irshadsalim28: 10% everywhere?
asidd66: Yes it would be everywhere land is found. Colonization of land refers to each land reclaimed due to creation of water channels and other irrigation projects. However, they tend to get more in Punjab
irshadsalim28: Does India have this act too?
asidd66: No. They got rid of such acts when they did land reforms. Remember India is a state moving towards capitalism. A capitalist state would not create means for institutionalizing feudalism
irshadsalim28: Are you saying Pak army has institutionalized feudalism?
asidd66: I am saying that it is a feudal institution as well
irshadsalim28: So in that case their interests converge with feudal system correct?
asidd66: Yes
irshadsalim28: Do u think they resisted land reform along with the feudal?
asidd66: I wouldn't say that they resisted but they had sufficient stakes not to pursue a policy that had a negative impact on their benefits. For example, who buys the land the Faujis sell? The local feudal or the new rural capitalist class that is equally feudal in nature. Why should the officers then try to destroy the class that bails them out financially. After 1999, generals have started to keep their lands
irshadsalim28: What happened after 1999
asidd66: Since the value of land has gone up, especially after 9/11, generals now keep lands and have turned into absentee land lords
irshadsalim28: Why did the value of land in Pak go up after 9/11
asidd66: Because of the money that started to flow in from Pakistani expats plus other Muslim countries
irshadsalim28: What is their modus operandi in getting these lands allotted to generals individually and to their housing societies collectively?
asidd66: The provincial governments allot the land to the Ministry of Defense who then gives the land to the three services for further dispersal. The land is also given to the Jawans but the quantity is lesser than what is given to the senior officers. Plus, the generals get greater facilities in making the land cultivable.
irshadsalim28: All this is based on 1912 colonization of land act that India got rid of and Pak still has?
asidd66: Yes, but they have done alterations as well. For instance, the act does not say that land meant for operational purpose be appropriated for personal use. It is against the law
irshadsalim28: Are you saying that land meant for operational purposes are or have been appropriated to the generals for personal use or to the housing societies?
asidd66: Of course. All land in the cities is military land turned into housing colonies
irshadsalim28: Why did u resign?
asidd66: I thought I could do much more with my time by writing and joining academia. Had gone on secondment from the civil service. Refused to take uniform.
irshadsalim28: Were you forced to resign or ever asked to resign due to your findings, etc?
asidd66: I wasn't forced but things were looking unpleasant when I left. There was a lot of arm twisting and it was getting unpleasant
irshadsalim28: Is it true that you were one of the whistle blowers who started to bring to light financial dealings in the forces?
asidd66: I am not sure if that is the right term but i was trying my best to put things in perspective such as analyzing and opposing weapons procurement deals that would not benefit the navy.
irshadsalim28: Is it true that more than once you had unpleasant analytical discussions with your superiors in such matters that led to arm twisting, etc
asidd66: We often had unpleasant discussions and arm twisting as well
irshadsalim28: What is the conclusion of your book?
asidd66: Simple: The political leadership in Pakistan has to negotiate the military's gradual withdrawal from the economy if they want democratic institutions to grow
irshadsalim28: Benazir Bhutto and the World Bank have voiced similar views, do you concur with them then?
asidd66: Of course
irshadsalim28: In the light of the post 9/11 scenario where the West have given a cart blanche to Pak army on all matters, where do your findings stand?
asidd66: The military always had the carte blanche from the West. They need to see that the alienation of society is one of the consequences of military's predation. Where does the poor man go in Pakistan, Turkey and Indonesia if not to God. There is no other means of transferring power except alternative ideologies, especially when the military has turned into a class and protects its interests along with other elite groups
irshadsalim28: Isn't the West party to Pak army's predatory growth as an economic institution?
asidd66: It benefits too
irshadsalim28: Specially during the Afghan war the west looked the other way, no?
asidd66: They have always looked the other way. They ignored Ayub, Yahya as well..
irshadsalim28: In that case why is the World Bank crying foul now? Is it because their interests are colliding now?
asidd66: It is making nice noises not crying foul. It will raise objections but what have they done about it. The man who once was part of the World Bank is now Governor State Bank of Pakistan
irshadsalim28: At what value does the army buy land?
asidd66: Between Rs. 30-60 per acre. In some cases they pay more. This refers to the private housing schemes
irshadsalim28: You mean in Defense society in Karachi, the army gets land from the provincial govt for 30 to 60 rupees an acre only?
asidd66: There are 2 methods for getting land. All the military land converted for personal use is given at the ridiculous price I quoted. Then there are other schemes where they pay a little more. For instance, the Cantt board distributed plots of 500 yards each by appropriating part of the parking lot of the Karachi stadium. Each plot was for about Rs 600,000
irshadsalim28: What was the fair market value of each plot at that time?
asidd66: One and a half crore
irshadsalim28: Who got these plots?
asidd66: Generals. The bulk goes to generals. This was done by General Tauqeer Zia. As Chairman Cricket Control Board he authorized himself to return this land that once belonged to the Cantt board for further distribution
irshadsalim28: Any more instances of such land grabbing?
asidd66: The entire Lahore Cantt was turned into housing schemes. In fact, except for Defense phase I & II (Lahore), the rest of the land does not even belong to the military
irshadsalim28: How many acres is Lahore Cantt if u know?
asidd66: About 8000 to 10,000
irshadsalim28: What is its fair market worth now
asidd66: Runs into billions. It should be around Rs. 700 billion
irshadsalim28: What was the "grabbing price"
asidd66: As I said, Rs. 30-60. This is the rate that officers pay
irshadsalim28: Thanks for your candid responses
asidd66: Thanks. Will catch up with you tomorrow....
(End of part 1 of Dr Siddiqa's interview)
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