I thank Dr Subimal Chakrabarty to comment on my posting. But there are some misunderstanding. I never stated that Rabindranath read or mentioned Marx. At least I do not know.
I have three points to note. First, one doesn't find any mention of ' alienation' in Lenin's writing. One may say that Economic and Philosophical Manuscripts of 1844 (Marx) wasn't known to Lenin as it was discovered by Riazanov eight years after Lenin's death. But Rabindranath referred to 'alienation' almost directly much before the publication of EPM.
On the 150th birth anniversary of Rabindranath, I wrote in an article in Hindustan Times, "Differences notwithstanding, Marx and Tagore had the same goal: emancipation of individuals. Marx envisioned "a reunion of free individuals". Tagore harped on the same point in every sphere of life. They had a striking similarity in the ideation of alienation. Two workers in Tagore's play Red Oleanders (1925) introduce themselves as '47-O' and '69-E', an idea propounded by Marx in his 'Economic and Philosophic Manuscripts of 1844', which wasn't known in India even during the Stalin era. "The worker", Marx wrote, "only feels himself outside his work" and gives in to "forced labour". In his lyric 'The Tame Bird Was In A Cage', Tagore says "They flutter their wings in yearning, and sing, 'Come closer, my love!'/The free bird cries, 'It cannot be, I fear the closed doors of the cage.'/The cage bird whispers, 'Alas, my wings are powerless and dead.'" . (http://www.hindustantimes.com/comment/edits/brotherhood-of-man/article1-695456.aspx).
Second, Marx (Engels too) did not differentiate between socialism and communism, but perceived them as synonymous. Other synonyms are republic of labour, society of free and associated producers, reunion of free individuals, society of free and associated producers etc.This basic understanding was demolished by Lenin, subsequently by Bolsheviks , later by Stalin, Mao and the entire 20th Century socialism (?) (Farida may kindly note that this understanding made me refer to Rabindranath's 'Amra Sabai Raja Amader-er Rajar rajotwe and I have no reason to revise my perception).
Third, Rabindranath did not endorse the violent ( crudely anarchic) path but never opposed the endeavour for freedom. He differed with the means, not the ends.
Anyway, let's debate but not in an irrational, obstinate and/or malignant way.
From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
Sent: Sun, 24 Nov 2013 22:46:57
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] মার্ক্সবাদীদের প্রতি
Thanks for the article on Hobsbawm, a hot favourite, and a legendary historian but not a great Marxist. Did you find any reference on two of the greatest Marxists of the 20th Century - M Rubel and Anton Pannenko? They and Riazanov were unquestionably the 3 greatest Marx scholar, much much above Lenin, Trotsky, Bukharin and even Lukacs and Gramsci.
About Rabindranath. Please read Paresh Chattopadhyay's Manusher Mukti-Marx in Saradiya Anustup of 1417. PC, drew parallel between Rabindranath and Marx. BS. Rabindranath understood alienation as the fall-out of aggressive capitalism in not only essays of co-operation but in Raktakarabi.
Farida, kindly read communism of Marx and Engels. Marx called of 'collective self-authority'.. Rabindranath- sammilito atmokortritwa.Marx and Rabindranath had different world outlook but they had no difference on the dangers of State and society of free and mutually cooperative society unlike Lenin,Stalin,Mao and Trotsky too.
I think moderrators too did not read the papers I sent. I am helpless. I maintain that Amra Sabai Raja encapsulates the essence of communist or socialist society.
Best,
Sankarda
From: Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com>
Sent: Sat, 23 Nov 2013 04:22:29
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] মার্ক্সবাদীদের প্রতি
Don't be fooled with "amra sobai raja". It is a stunt! I have never reconciled with Rabindranath's Raja-preeti. Here is an article on Eric Hobsbaum that I think you will enjoy.
The Man Who Knew Almost Everything
Ramachandra Guha | November 12, 2013From: shahdeeldar@yahoo.com
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2013 18:27:42 -0800
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] মার্ক্সবাদীদের প্রতি
-SD
http://www.rediffmail.com/cgi-bin/red.cgi?account_type=1&red=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DvZ9myHhpS9s&isImage=0&BlockImage=0&rediffng=0
-Seuss
Mr. Ray, what does the above statement mean?
Dr Subimal Chakrabarty has very correctly stated that Marxism should not be the state principle. Marx, Rabindranath Tagore too, had been opposed to state.In a letter to Dr Ludwig Kugelman, he wrote on 12/4/1871,"If you look at the last chapter of my Eighteenth Brumaire you will find that I say that the next attempt of the French revolution will be no longer, as before, to transfer the bureaucratic-military machine from one hand to another, but to smash it, and this is essential for every real people's revolution on the Continent. And this is what our heroic Party comrades in Paris are attempting." Rabindranath's ideation of coveted social order is encapsulated in his lyric- "আমরা সবাই রাজা আমাদের এই রাজার রাজত্বে/নইলে মোদের রাজার সনে মিলব কি সত্বে?
And Marx's works are a jungle. From the IISH, Amsterdam 114 volumes of works of Marx and Engels, their notes, letters (to and fro) in original languages (Marx wrote one of the manuscripts of Capital Vol II in French); 57 of them have been published. In fact, I too have written an introductory on the project MEGA in kafila.org, I wrote in one of the mails here.
Marx had a Math Manuscripts, one Manuscript on chemistry, several on geology and ethnology.
Here is one on Math Manuscripts by Pradip Baksi (http://www.rediffmail.com/cgi-bin/red.cgi?account_type=1&red=http%3A%2F%2Fcfcul.fc.ul.pt%2Fvarios%2FKarl_Marx_small.pdf&isImage=0&BlockImage=0&rediffng=0) , one of the most erudite scholars in not only on Marx and Engels, but linguistics, philosophy. He was the first to translate Math Manuscripts into Bengali and English. Interested members/netizens may write to Pradip - pradipbaksi@gmail.com -asking for his papers, although that's a huge repository.
Best,
SR
From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wed, 20 Nov 2013 04:57:59
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] মার্ক্সবাদীদের প্রতি
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 18, 2013, at 4:07 AM, QR <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
I got a great Marxist friend in Kolkata, who built his three story building some ten years ago next to a slum and loves to display his wealth and affluence as his great achievement.
>>>>>>>>>>> (Except a tiny percentage) Leftists of Bangladesh are no different. They "sell" idea to make money and it is probably the "Best sounding idea" of our time. A nice debate can take place if we should focus on "Equal treatment" or "Justified treatment" of all people.
Status of people can be equal but talent/skills/knowledge varies with people and even societies.
Shalom!
-----Original Message-----
From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: bangladesh-progressives <bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Nov 17, 2013 5:49 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] মার্ক্সবাদীদের প্রতি
With no malice to Marx or his philosophy, I was only trying mock some diehard clowns, who still love to cling onto the ideas that have been rejected and discarded by the ordinary people and naive proletariat. I am sure there are some intrinsic academic values in Marx's economical philosophy and that is truly great for the development of our human society. But, I would not stretch it beyond that. Marxists should practice their philosophy as much as they want but I do not want that POS to be applied in my backyard. I got a great Marxist friend in Kolkata, who built his three story building some ten years ago next to a slum and loves to display his wealth and affluence as his great achievement.
-SD
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss
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