Deeldar Saheb
Democracy and those who practice it for power and money are not the same thing. I am not interested in the latter who are no doubt imbeciles. I am here to analyze the strengths and weaknesses of a system. Some people (pretty educated and American residents) believe that countries like Bangladesh are not yet ready for democracy. This can only be debated using rules of engagement, not by yelling.
I would request you to read (if you have not yet done it) Rabindranth's "Rashiar chithi" (Letters written from Russia) to get a picture of how Rabindranath (a non-partisan man) felt about the experiment the Soviet Union was carrying out after the Bolshevik Revolution.
Showkat Osman (a prominent litterateur) was my teacher in Dhaka College. He never opened the book and never taught a single piece from the text. He used to talk on various topics with the sole purpose of opening our eyes and mind. One day he was referring to how the literacy rate had changed in Uzbekistan. The term "uzbuk" was now a history.
It should be mentioned that Rabindranath also shed light on the inherent weaknesses of the system and was suspicious if the system would live long. He said it in 1930 and the Soviet communism collapsed in 60 years. He used his political wisdom to point out that in addition to the way the administrators and bureaucrats were trying to implement the ideology, there were active external elements were also out there to destroy the system.
On Sunday, November 24, 2013 11:26 AM, Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com> wrote:
I am not sure why Mr. Bose gets his gall bladder pain when people like দারুচিনি দ্বীপ asking some pointed questions to our hypocrites, Marxists Dada and Didis? Did Mr. Bose read the text before expressing his prejudicial comments about Bangladeshis? Probably not? He carries a red bible and obviously, that has made him a superior human. As long as we, lowlifes let him do our thinking and ask no question, he is happy. We, with our low intelligence should read only things that are suggested to us and we should keep reading them until we get brainwashed and become their dirty tools? It sounds like a page has been taken from the deadly enemies, the Islamist. Yes, he is our typical cartoonish Dada! He hates Islamist but he loves their methods. He would not commit an sex act because he gets his orgasms solely from reading that red damn book. God, how much I hate these imbeciles, who has not figured out yet how they have taken down the state of Bengal to the bottom.
My friend's three storied building is not a fiction. I bet, if I visit Sankar-da's or Mr. Bose's little home towns, I would see these men are not even sharing their precious toilets with other proletariates in their neighborhood. Their sons and daughters are encouraged to go abroad and get a decent education while we damn miskins should not be venturing beyond our minds and homes?
These are basically দারুচিনি দ্বীপ's points. I probably gave some color onto them to create little drama. But, the truth is there if anybody is willing to see it. Thank you and I rest my case.
With respect and regards,
-SD
My friend's three storied building is not a fiction. I bet, if I visit Sankar-da's or Mr. Bose's little home towns, I would see these men are not even sharing their precious toilets with other proletariates in their neighborhood. Their sons and daughters are encouraged to go abroad and get a decent education while we damn miskins should not be venturing beyond our minds and homes?
These are basically দারুচিনি দ্বীপ's points. I probably gave some color onto them to create little drama. But, the truth is there if anybody is willing to see it. Thank you and I rest my case.
With respect and regards,
-SD
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss
-Seuss
On Saturday, November 23, 2013 10:11 AM, Soumitra Bose <soumitrabose@gmail.com> wrote:
I am amazed, bewildered, put into incessant laugh[lol] and so very amused to see some creatures [ hindu and muslim - fortunately for us and unfortunately for these bangladeshee tiny fraction, whose brains do not go beyond the scrottal region in identifying people] from Bangladesh endevour to shoot from their fundaments. Their paltry reading, challenging erudition and charming comprehension coupled with myopic frog like observation is now declaring prophesies on Marxism. And there is one [some Deeldar- so inimical to the meaning of his name] now fishes out one anonymous from Kolkata [he has done so with very understandable old rationale of the jamatis & Muslim leaguers] who ostensibly has a multi-storeyed house beside a slum.... that ostensibly is touted here as a proof of "something"] who now is another "philosophers"..
Some what distantly I am tempted to quote an adage here "A martyr sacrifices his/her life for his people and country, a refugee sacrifices his country for his life". We find some Bangladeshi intellectuals happily taking refuge abroad with citizenships of multiple countries and then happily write about the "people back home" with american and jewish doughnuts in hand for breakfast..... These are the NRBs from which we are supposed to learn philosophy and politics. It is good and magnanimous that people like Farida apa still exists in Bangladesh [even with her citizenship of US which she was thrust upon in her young days]. From whom should we learn??????
Anyway this RAJA concept has to be seen in perspective where the meaning is not Kingly but as per the upanishadic definition of decider of one's will. Being not so enamoured with Rabi Thakur's ideas and Gandhi's and Halden's, I must say this concept mean differently with nuances in the context. BTW, Farida Apa, why have you quoted Ram Guhan [ he is not Guha actually]. He is a prolific writer on anything and everything, from cricket to science to philosophy to what not.... such a huge expanse loose the weight of his comments.... Habsbawm had his greatness expressed in a different space not where Ram mentions on Habsbawm. I would enthusiastically and bemusingly [ however queer I actually would look forward to that] wait and attend [in the french, latin connotation] for a long discourse on Habsbawm.
On 23 November 2013 02:46, Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com> wrote:
Sankar da,
Don't be fooled with "amra sobai raja". It is a stunt! I have never reconciled with Rabindranath's Raja-preeti. Here is an article on Eric Hobsbaum that I think you will enjoy.
Published on The Nation (http://www.thenation.com/)The Man Who Knew Almost Everything
Ramachandra Guha | November 12, 2013CC: bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com
From: shahdeeldar@yahoo.com
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2013 18:27:42 -0800
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] মার্ক্সবাদীদের প্রতি
I am not sure what these people are humping on but this quiz show might help some of our diehards to alleviate their gas and other ailments. Enjoy!
-SD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZ9myHhpS9s"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss
On Wednesday, November 20, 2013 6:40 PM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Marx had a Math Manuscripts, one Manuscript on chemistry, several on geology and ethnology."
Mr. Ray, what does the above statement mean?
You said Marxism is a jungle; I think your above statement reflect that jungle. It appears to me that - you have been spending enormous amount of your time and effort studying and promoting Marxism. What's the objective? Do you see Marxism is coming back slowly, and it will be fully implemented someday? Or, you see a new social philosophy is being born in America, China, Russia, and Europe out of fusion of Capitalism and Marxism. I see the latter scenario; what say you?Jiten Roy
On Wednesday, November 20, 2013 6:07 PM, Sankar Kumar Ray <sankarray62@rediffmail.com> wrote:
Dr Subimal Chakrabarty has very correctly stated that Marxism should not be the state principle. Marx, Rabindranath Tagore too, had been opposed to state.In a letter to Dr Ludwig Kugelman, he wrote on 12/4/1871,"If you look at the last chapter of my Eighteenth Brumaire you will find that I say that the next attempt of the French revolution will be no longer, as before, to transfer the bureaucratic-military machine from one hand to another, but to smash it, and this is essential for every real people's revolution on the Continent. And this is what our heroic Party comrades in Paris are attempting." Rabindranath's ideation of coveted social order is encapsulated in his lyric- "আমরা সবাই রাজা আমাদের এই রাজার রাজত্বে/নইলে মোদের রাজার সনে মিলব কি সত্বে?
And Marx's works are a jungle. From the IISH, Amsterdam 114 volumes of works of Marx and Engels, their notes, letters (to and fro) in original languages (Marx wrote one of the manuscripts of Capital Vol II in French); 57 of them have been published. In fact, I too have written an introductory on the project MEGA in kafila.org, I wrote in one of the mails here.
Marx had a Math Manuscripts, one Manuscript on chemistry, several on geology and ethnology.
Here is one on Math Manuscripts by Pradip Baksi (http://cfcul.fc.ul.pt/varios/Karl_Marx_small.pdf) , one of the most erudite scholars in not only on Marx and Engels, but linguistics, philosophy. He was the first to translate Math Manuscripts into Bengali and English. Interested members/netizens may write to Pradip - pradipbaksi@gmail.com -asking for his papers, although that's a huge repository.
Best,
SR
From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wed, 20 Nov 2013 04:57:59
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] মার্ক্সবাদীদের প্রতি
One may preach some thing and practice some thing else. It applies to any political ideology. Marxism and a Marxist are not synonymous in the same way as Islam and an Islamist are not. It would be illogical to blame Islam if an Islamist Madrassa principal rapes a young boy. The question that should be asked is if Marxism teaches a Marxist to mock the poverty of the poor by building a palace near a slum.I don't think any one in this forum wants Marxism to be the state principle. The primary objective here is to engage in intellectual intellectual exercise which is not easy at all as the Marxist literature is a vast jungle.
Sent from my iPhoneI got a great Marxist friend in Kolkata, who built his three story building some ten years ago next to a slum and loves to display his wealth and affluence as his great achievement.
>>>>>>>>>>> (Except a tiny percentage) Leftists of Bangladesh are no different. They "sell" idea to make money and it is probably the "Best sounding idea" of our time. A nice debate can take place if we should focus on "Equal treatment" or "Justified treatment" of all people.
Status of people can be equal but talent/skills/knowledge varies with people and even societies.
Shalom!
-----Original Message-----
From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: bangladesh-progressives <bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Nov 17, 2013 5:49 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] মার্ক্সবাদীদের প্রতি
With no malice to Marx or his philosophy, I was only trying mock some diehard clowns, who still love to cling onto the ideas that have been rejected and discarded by the ordinary people and naive proletariat. I am sure there are some intrinsic academic values in Marx's economical philosophy and that is truly great for the development of our human society. But, I would not stretch it beyond that. Marxists should practice their philosophy as much as they want but I do not want that POS to be applied in my backyard. I got a great Marxist friend in Kolkata, who built his three story building some ten years ago next to a slum and loves to display his wealth and affluence as his great achievement.
-SD
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss
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