The reason that I brought the issue of hoodud law here was to show that the Pakistanis do not do justice even to their own womenfolk. How could then anybody ask them about the rapes that their men committed on girls and women of other nation? Asking for justice in Pakistan is thus oxymoronic in nature. I request everyone to read this story in CNN about the brutal rape the Serbs committed on one of our sisters: http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/07/22/sarajevo.rape/index.html. Now do you (the Paki denier) believe her? Where is her proof? Where is the document? She would not even show her face. If I say, "I want to see some document which show she is being raped, and than I might believe her", what kind of human being would you think of me? Do you believe that the Indian army raped or is raping girls and women in Kashmir? If yes, then where are the proofs? Did you videotape those as evidence against Indian army? Can you show us all the members of Indian army who participated in rapes? Kashmir has a very conservative Muslim society. How many raped Kashmiri women can you show us? You see the fallacy of your logic. Your logic can be used against you. The above heartbreaking story of our Bosnian sister is just one out of tens of thousands. There are many such horror stories on rapes of Muslims girls and women in Gujarat and by the Serbs in Bosnia in various websites. Anybody with even a little conscience is bound to lose some of his or her sleep. I ask this Pakistani denier to think for a second that his Paki brothers did the same on us, but there was nobody in 1971 to video those rapes as evidence for this Paki denier. I really didn't understand his demented mumbo jumbo on raping, killing, and looting logic. His goal is to somehow prove no Paki ever raped any Bengalis in 1971 war. We have seen a lot like him. But what is clear from this guy's write-up is that it will infuriate even many supporters of right-wing ideologies (except Jammat/Shibir because they also participated in those crimes) in Bangladesh. Now compare that story from CNN with the following videos: http://www.docstrangelove.com/uploads/1971/19720220_nbcnews.mp4 www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMg9Ly9nK0g Analysis of "East Pakistan: The Endgame — An Onlooker's Journal 1969-1971" a book by Brigadier Abdul Rehman Siddiqi, former head of the Inter Services Public Relations (ISPR) and Press Advisor to Army Chief General Yahya Khan: http://www.genocidebangladesh.org/?p=221. Read towards the end -Siddiqi also exposes the infamous General Niazi who shamelessly defended the rapists by declaring that: "You cannot expect a man to live, fight and die in East Pakistan and go to Jhelum for sex, would you?"
Another thing is that the Serbs and Hindus in Gujarat committed atrocities on the Muslims, but the Pakistanis did it on their fellow Sunni coreligionists. The Serbs and Hindus did not recite kalima (shahada), didn't know about the Prophet (SA) and never read the Holy Quran, but the Pakistanis did. Now who are the worst criminals among them?
(Saj wrote: Jamat e Islami is a principal based Jamat)
An example of Jamaati discipline for this Jamaati from Pakistan:
Page 340, vol. I of Tafheemul-Quran by Maudoodi:
Even today women captured in war should be distributed among soldiers and the soldiers be allowed to use them (is that what the Serbs did?). (The Qur'ân in verse 47/4 states that: "the captives of war must be freed either for ransom or as a way of kindness. There is no other option.")
(Saj wrote: Number of Rape victims in Pakistan are far less than the number of rape victims in India.)
Because the number of people in Pakistan is also far less than that of India. And in Pakistan they kill the rape victims in the name of honor killing. That also reduces the number of rape victims. You see anybody can come up with things to prove his or her point, whether you agree or not that's different matter.
(Saj wrote: Most interestingly, Hindus never claimed that and also the Serbs as ell. Killing things in Gujrat and in Bosnia had been seen at large scale in media. How some can believe on what Hindu is saying. As the proofs are their.)
O really! Did you talk to BJP/Shivsena Hindus in Gujarat, especially in Ahmedabad about the rapes? Any valid proof of that? BJP/Shivsena followers burned to death most of the Muslim rape victims to get rid of any evidence. Let alone acknowledging their crimes, after the pogrom against the Muslims they twice reelected Modi as Chief Minister of Gujarat with record votes. I find a lot of similarities between BJP/Shivsena and the Pakistanis. Yes, there are many left wing and secular Indians in other states who acknowledge these atrocities, but very few in Gujarat. In Bosnia the Serbs blame the Muslims for the atrocities on them in a funny way. How did you come up with that lie about "the Bangalis or Bangladeshi government had never done a research and never officially annouced any valid documents in support of your elligations." Whatever research the Bengalis do, the giant hypocrite in you will always deny that. So why bother.
Few months ago I posted the following on Pakistan, which includes two links, one from Newsweek and the other one from National Geographic. The Pakis may violently deny the facts in these articles, but if the Pakis feel they have the right to deny their forefathers war crimes, then we also have the right to believe whatever against them:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/alochona/message/8610
Lastly, we should not raise this war crime issue to any Paki, it will not take us anywhere. Allah is already taking care of this issue. Isn't He? And He is not done yet. He is the only one who knows the whole thing and what exactly happened He will take care of all sponsors, and sympathizers too. And He does things when the time is appropriate. This is my last response on this topic. What a waste of time!
>
> OK. So you are trying to tell me that the common person like from some other country knows more about the country than the common person of the country? Did you followed the link, which I send later? Which superpower had provided us support and what kind of support it was? Will you please write down a little for our information?
>
> Military support provided by USA was its own need. Specially, when USSR attacked on Afghanistan, USA needed strong Pakistan to defend itself if Russians attacked on it too. So they provided Military support. But our Military was well aware and well experienced with USA. So they installed their own factories and plants in Pakistan and now today, Pakistan is producing its own weapons, instead of importing from USA. Those bad old days had gone for ever. Can you tell us which Pakistani Weapon factory as funded or sponsered by so called bloody friend. Common, please don't joke with us. Read the most latest news in my previous post and tell me how can you consider USA a Pakistani friend?
>
> Again, rape, killing and looting topics are always difficult between Pakistanis and Bangladeshis. As a matter of common sense, the person, who raped the women would had also killed someone and looted the money.All three crimes are conducted by the same group of people. Those people who had no sympathy for the common people. Am I right? And if the killers and rapers were arrested and made POWs in Indian Jails, then were the looted money gone? Do you have any idea?
>
> How can a hindu from Gujrat could claim that, while it is well documented and well recorded not only by the media but by the international organistions too? This is not even possible. Most interestingly, Hindus never claimed that and also the Serbs as well. Killing things in Gujrat and in Bosnia had been seen at large scale in media. How some can believe on what Hindu is saying. As the proofs are thier. But on the other side, the Bangalis or Bangladeshi government had never done a research and never officially annouced any valid documents in support of your elligations. Instead, the former Bangali Embasseder had said that we can't run the investigation alone. Need pakistan's help. The fact is that all figures and claims had been made by India and the Indian media. Lately, adopted and recognised as true by the Bangali government. But you should produce some research reports and facts sheets from some authentic source, not from RAW. What you say?
>
> What India is producing, I will discuss it in other thread with you. Don't you worry. I know very well what India is producing. having hundreds of billions of dollars in foriegn reserves and more than 330 million people do not have proper toilet facility. Remmember that this figure is double of the total population of Bangladesh and also of Pakistan. What you say about that?
>
> And do I need to give you example of what happen to rape victims in India? I hope you would not like to discuss it. Number of Rape victims in Pakistan are far less than the number of rape victims in India. Remmember that. And also that Laws in Pakistan are more freely made from the hardline Muslims than fandamantalists and criminal minded Hindus/Barhamans in India. Especialy Bal Thakre and BJP. Which left no chance to make more friendly relations with zionists.
>
> Perhaps, you would like to reproduce that news in Jamat's newspaper. And visualise the polical situation at that time for us. So that we can clearly understand why Jamat had given such Fatwa, if they had really given. Secondly, Jamat e Islami is a principal based Jamat. And there is no doubt into it. What I learned from my experience in Pakistan is that they were opponents of creation of Pakistan too. But they become a loayal citizen of Pakistan, once its established.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: musasarkar
> To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 9:20 PM
> Subject: [ALOCHONA] Re: Consequence of Nizami's release
>
>
>
> Lecture from a completely ignorant person, a person who is also in complete denial of Paki brutalities of 1971. A person who doesn't even know or doesn't want to know which superpower was 100% behind Pakistan since its inception and during 1971 war. That it was the full military, political, and financial blessings from USA that Pakistan carried out those brutalities. Things might be little different now between US and Pakistan, but the alliance between USA and Pak army will go long long way.
>
> Look how cleverly this guy did not mention the rapes committed by his sachcha Musulman compatriots. The Pakistanis acknowledging the atrocities of their compatriots will never happen. It will be just waste of time to argue with these people, they will always deny it.
>
> I am a bit surprised at the intrusion of this Pakistani spy in our Bangladeshi forum. According to his twisted logic, if a Hindu from Gujarat says, "Nothing happened to the Muslims in 2002 ugly riot, all those news regarding atrocities against Muslims were media generated and Muslim propaganda. Indian police killed some ant-Indian elements who were engaged in some subversive acts against India." Are we going to accept that? What about the Serbian denial of atrocities during the war in Bosnia? According to them, they only killed few terrorists.
>
> Do we expect anything better from a person from Pakistan where a rape victim goes to prison because she cannot produce four male witnesses and the rapists roam free? Thanks to barbaric Hoodud ordinance created by US stooge Ziaul Hoque under the pretext of Sharia. And a vast majority of Pakis wholeheartedly support it including their so called educated ones. India is producing high-techs; Pakistan is producing Talibans.
>
> This guy is also defending Jamaat, whereas Go Azam, the head of East Pakistan Jamaat in 1971 issued a fatwa during the war declaring all the rapes committed by Pak army as Mutta marriages. This was published in Jamaat's own newspaper at that time. So lying, deception, and covering up are once again taking their own course here.
>
> --- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, "Saj" SAJJAD_PAK@ wrote:
> >
> > Asalam Alaikum
> >
> > As a Pakistani, I am not surprised with that much intensity in the debate going on between different schools of thoughts amongs Bangladeshi. One thing common, I found is the presence of spies from India, US and the zionists. But there is certainly one thing, which not only make me laugh but also surprised to me that you guys considering Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and USA as one club. This is for the first time in my life that I had ever been told that USA is our friend. Otherwise, what we experiencing in NWFP and Balochistan provinces, we can only have one faith for USA and that is that USA is our biggest enemy, bigger than India. I am not sure that you would be willing to learn about american involvments in Pakistani matters. But if you want to, I can send you as many links and materials as you want, which will educate you enough about Pakistan-US relationship.
> >
> > As far as the independence of Bangladesh is concern, there is no doubt that we, as a Pakistani, were against the disintegeration of Pakistan and were trying our best to stop this process at any cost. But, as now Bangladesh has become an independent country, we can only wish you best of luck for your future.
> >
> > I noticed that Jamat e Islami is oftenly criticised by many Bangladeshi as the Anti-Liberation element during 1971. It is very true that Jamat e Islami was opposing creation of Bangladesh. Just like they were opposing creation of Pakistan in 1947. Their logic for their opposition to the creation of Bangladesh was the same as of 1947. They believe that dis-integeration of teritories become the barrier in spreading Islam and thus is not truly favourable for Islam. But after the independence from Hindustan. Jamat e Islami became a loyal party to Pakistan and since then acting in the best interest of the country. They never did any demonstration in favour of India. The fact is that their contributions towards Jihad in Kashmir will never be forgetted. I believe that the Jamat's behaviour would be the same in Bangladesh. As the ideological people do not change their principals.
> >
> > The killing thing is most difficult topic of all debates between Pakistanis and Bangladeshis. Both have different stand over this issue. Bangladeshis strongly believe that Pakistani military conducted massive killing operations in East Pakistan. Which resulted in death of uncountable number of Bangalis. While, on the other hand, Pakistanis believe that Pakistan's attempt to crush Anti-Pakistan demonstrations was similar to that of usual police operations, which sometimes backed by the military in usual manner in any country. And the firing, beating the protestors by the police/military men is as common in the rest of the world. You would have seen many protests inside Bangladesh, where police opened fire over their own Bangali brothers and sisters. Now, the question is that in 1971, when Pakistani Military opened fire over protestors and Anti-Pakistan elements, you declared it genocide and holocaust of Bangalis in the hands of Eastern Pakistanis. And now, when your own Bangali Police firing on you, what name you would like to give it? It would be interesting to knwo about it.
> >
> > Anyway, it is just one of the many reasons of why Bangalis lost their lives and wealth during 1971 unrest in West Pakistan. Which resulted in the creation of Bangladesh. One of the other theory poped up from inside India, which I am sure that you would aware with. Some female writer correctly analysed the war of 1971 by saying that their were THREE different confontrations going on at that time. War between Anti-Pakistan and Pro-Pakistan elements, War between India and Pakistan and war between Anti-Pakistan and Pakistan Army. All the accounts of killings, found in Bangali libraries of today, are dedicated to Pakistan Army. While what the Pro-Pakistan elements done with Anti-Pakistan elements, what the Anti-Pakistan elements had done with Pro-Pakistan elements, What Indian had done with Pro-Pakistan elements, What Indians had done with the post war east Pakistan, which became Bangladesh, is always remain unknown to the Bangalis and to the rest of Pakistan.
> >
> > One of the Bangali Freedom Fighter of 1971 Liberation movement, Lt Gen (Retd) SARDAR F.S. LODI, tells his story that how he became a Freedom Fighter, how he get trained in Indian camps on the other side of International border. What were their attitude towards Bangali Freedom Fighters. And also the activities of Indian Army after capturing East Pakistan. So the best friend of Bangladesh betryed it immediatly after its independence. This is not it. But he analysed the Indian RAW in details and described how this bloody organisation of India make its ways. He also wrote the REAL reasons of why India was interested to seperate East Pakistan from the West. A little intro to his book could be found from the following link.
> >
> > http://www.defencejournal.com/2000/feb/raw.htm
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Saj
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: musasarkar
> > To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 10:24 AM
> > Subject: [ALOCHONA] Re: Consequence of Nizami's release
> >
> >
> >
> > US-Saudi-Pak is an exclusive club. How can anybody else make real
> > friendship with them when it was your lord Jamaat and Nizami who worked
> > hand in hand with Pakistan with full US-Saudi support in 1971 in killing
> > and raping us abusing the name of our religion? It was your morally
> > and spiritually bankrupt lord Jamaat's jihad against our women and
> > innocent civilians. (And you religiously want us to forget those as
> > quickly as possible). First, you have to certify those evil acts of
> > 1971 as great religious duties, then you will be able to make real and
> > everlasting friendship with them. You have to declare like Tarek Zia,
> > "BNP and Jamaat belong to the same family and we are now inseparable."
> > What more do you want us to show about a murderer and rapist unless he
> > is really shameless? What do you mean by constructive? When did lying,
> > covering up, defending evil, hypocrisy and deception become part of
> > someting constructive?
> >
> > --- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, Wohid bidrohee@ wrote:
> > >
> > > Our million dollar question is - why you and your lord (BAL) then
> > failed to make them friends while Nizami could???? Why don't you blame
> > the court now that has released him? Or do you get yet another excuse to
> > blaming the Bangladesh judiciary being pocketed by the anti-liberation
> > forces? Then who else except you and your lord BAL left out of the
> > pocket of your anti-liberation forces??? You guys are really good at
> > biting at the bait when the fish jumps out of your catch!!!!! That is
> > the genuine characteristics of politically and ideologically bankrupt
> > fishermen. What else you still have to show us in your jihad against
> > Jamaat??? Come on man, be constructive and if those anti-liberation
> > forces are destructive as opposed to your constructive actions, they
> > will be automatically vanished and you will gain the people's love to
> > get them down and yourself up.......
> > >
> > > musasarkar m_musa92870@ wrote: The pressure from the axis of
> > US-Saudi-Pakistan finally succeeded. Jamaate Islami's Qamaruzzaman's
> > recent visit to their top master, US administration, has fully paid off.
> > Even though the foot soldiers of Jamaat/Shibir always spread US-Israeli
> > conspiracy theory about almost everything, we know very well who their
> > real masters are. Lets hope that the Saudi blackmailing of the poor
> > Bangladeshi laborers stops now at least for a little while. Our murderer
> > and rapist in chief of Al Badr is their royal guest. Can anybody do
> > anything about that, specially when the price of oil is hovering around
> > $140 a barrel.
> > > Nizami's velkibaji - Seriously sick Nizami is completely healthy right
> > after his release (and they call him Moulana!):
> > >
> > http://prothom-alo.com/archive/news_details_home.php?dt=2008-07-16&issue\
> > _id=985&nid=MTc0NzA=
> > > Out of all the arrested politicians, only Saudi royal guest Nizami
> > received special treatment:
> > > http://prothom-alo.com/print.php?t=h&nid=MTc1MTA=
> > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > From: Robin Khundkar rkhundkar@
> > > To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 1:40:50 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [ALOCHONA] Consequence of Nizami's release
> > >
> > > It pays to have loving friends among the establishment in the country
> > and powerful patrons abroad (USA & KSA). A winning combination with
> > slick marketing to emphasize their overall reasonableness and all around
> > good manners and a white wash of their blood stained traitorous past &
> > present.
> > >
> > > Robin Khundkar
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: "Dr. Anisur Rahman"
> > > Sent: Jul 16, 2008 7:31 AM
> > > To: alochona@yahoogroup s.com, mukto-mona@yahoogro ups.com,
> > banglarnari@ yahoogroups. com, dahuk@yahoogroups. com, sonarbangladesh@
> > yahoogroups. com
> > > Subject: [ALOCHONA] Consequence of Nizami's release
> > >
> > > Dear All,
> > >
> > > While the four party alliance was preparing for anti-government
> > movement, Motiur Rahman Nizami was freed on bail. He is the first senior
> > politician to receive bail in emergency. What will be its consequence?
> > Will Jamaat make a deal with the government?
> > >
> > > I tryied to analyse the issue in my article published at:
> > >
> > > http://www.sonarban gladesh.com/ article.php? ID=177
> > >
> > >
> > > Best regards.
> > >
> >
>
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