Banner Advertiser

Wednesday, July 23, 2008

Re: [ALOCHONA] Re: Consequence of Nizami's release

You are wrong when you say that I am making this an issue of debate. See the post, which I was responding. Ofcouse the killing thing is a difficult topic between Pakistanis and Bangalis. And on this issue, I believe, everyone out of us will agree. I am surprised if you are not. And look at your own reply. The whole of your response is only on this single topic.Am I wrong?
 
This is not nonsense. Infect, you are trying to misinterpret the question according to your own or party interests. This is very logical and straight forward question. The real intentions behind this question was to help the people understand that this is as common thing in the rest of the world as it was in East Pakistan/Bangladesh. You should try to answer this question, sincerly.
 
And what is the connection between part of my post and your comments? May be you like to explain this. If Pakistan is not wealthy that means that Pakistan has no wealth and if Pakistan has no wealth than where the hell, the Bangali wealth gone. And ofcouse, that was one of the many reasons of why Bangalis lost their lives and wealth(One of the reason was that Indian army enforced curfew and start looting everything they found, ranging from a small pen in the small shop to Military equipment of East Pakistan/Bangladesh Military).
 
Did you follow the link I gave in my last post? The person is retired General of Bangladeshi Military and also fought the Liberation movement. See what he saying about the Indian Military. And tell us too.
 
East Pakistan won overwhelmingly in the elections but Bhutto was un willing to let them rule the country. And gave a slogan of Idhar Hum Udhar Tum. Which resulted in partitioning of the country. Bhutto maintained his family traditions by doing that. His father Shah Nawaz Bhutto also invited Indian Army to take over Jonagarh. Which was the first lost of Pakistan in the hands of Indian Army. His dauther, Benezir also maintained the same old family traditions and provided the list of Sikh Activists to the Indians. Do you still believe that I need to do more homework?
 
What Hitler did to the Jews, if really true, was not new in the life of Jews. During their first crusade, when they were intending take over Bait ul Maqdas from Musalman, they did they same with the jews. Overall, Crusade is Christian religious duty and it is against Non-Christians, not against Musalman only. They argued that every Non-Christian should convert to Christianity otherwise they should get ready to die. Lot of Jews assassinated by the Christian forces and many more had commited suicides after killing their whole families. Their logic was that any or all of the family member could convert to Christianity when they will be threatened to be killed. A large genocide/holocaust happened at time in Germany. This is the story of almost 1000 years before. On the other hands, Jews never considered themselves the citizens of the country where they are living. That is why they never become part of any nation in the world. While the nation represents to the group of the people of one country and had very little to do with religion.
 
In Germany, the Jews were a miniroty. Their population contribution had never touched the double figure. But they were very active and were acting against any form of nantionalistic campaign throughout the world and the Hitler knew that this kind of Anti-Nationalistic elements are not good for them. While Bangalis were running their Liberation Movement on the basis of the Nationalism. Am I wrong? And this is not it. The population contribution of Bangalis is East Pakistan was almost 100 %. So how the cleansing thing could work? Do you believe that the killers of Bangalis are that fool that they can't understand this basic fact?
 
Thanks for your sharing thing. If you tell me about your Pakistani relatives and friends and give their contact details, I would love to meet them and talk to them. I am sure that your Pakistani relatives will be in good health. What they do here? which city they live? What are their jobs/businesses? Please consider me too your friend, yea.
 
And also seek comments from your own Pakistani relatives and friends and post those comments here.
 
By simply saying shame on you, you can not proove that you are right and the others are wrong. Tell us with honesty that you had not logically answered any point in the post. Atleast, you can comment on the findings of one of your own X Bangali military officer. Or may be you have some solid and logical research to share with us about what had actually happened in East Pakistan?
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 8:57 PM
Subject: RE: [ALOCHONA] Re: Consequence of Nizami's release

Saj,

Are you out of you mind when you made the statement "The killing thing is most difficult topic of all debates between Pakistanis and Bangladeshis"? Aren't you ashamed of yourself to make it an issue of a 'debate'?

And what is this nonsense about "Now, the question is that in 1971, when Pakistani Military opened fire over protestors and Anti-Pakistan elements, you declared it genocide and holocaust of Bangalis in the hands of Eastern Pakistanis"? You're ignorant, clueless and should have a permanent place in a lunatic asylum. While at it, learn how to spell Bengalis.

Also, what was this comment about "Anyway, it is just one of the many reasons of why Bangalis lost their lives and wealth during 1971.."? Excuse me; I forgot that you're so much wealthier with twice as much external debt ($40 billion) than Bangladesh.

Do your homework you nitwit. East Pakistan won the overwhelming majority in the parliamentary election through a democratic process. It may be a novel concept in Pakistan.

Your horror-stricken comment was as appalling as those of Hitler's supporters in Europe in the 1940's. They were convinced that cleansing fatherland of Jews was the right thing to do. Therefore, the actions against any anti-German elements who didn't comply were justified.

I'll share your comments with my Pakistani relatives and friends.

In the meantime, would other Alochoc like to comment on Saj's insensitive remarks?

Shame on you Saj!

Shah

From: alochona@yahoogroups.com [mailto:alochona@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Saj
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 6:54 AM
To: Alochona
Cc: Pakistan Front
Subject: Re: [ALOCHONA] Re: Consequence of Nizami's release

Asalam Alaikum

As a Pakistani, I am not surprised with that much intensity in the debate going on between different schools of thoughts amongs Bangladeshi. One thing common, I found is the presence of spies from India, US and the zionists. But there is certainly one thing, which not only make me laugh but also surprised to me that you guys considering Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and USA as one club. This is for the first time in my life that I had ever been told that USA is our friend. Otherwise, what we experiencing in NWFP and Balochistan provinces, we can only have one faith for USA and that is that USA is our biggest enemy, bigger than India. I am not sure that you would be willing to learn about american involvments in Pakistani matters. But if you want to, I can send you as many links and materials as you want, which will educate you enough about Pakistan-US relationship.

As far as the independence of Bangladesh is concern, there is no doubt that we, as a Pakistani, were against the disintegeration of Pakistan and were trying our best to stop this process at any cost. But, as now Bangladesh has become an independent country, we can only wish you best of luck for your future.

I noticed that Jamat e Islami is oftenly criticised by many Bangladeshi as the Anti-Liberation element during 1971. It is very true that Jamat e Islami was opposing creation of Bangladesh. Just like they were opposing creation of Pakistan in 1947. Their logic for their opposition to the creation of Bangladesh was the same as of 1947. They believe that dis-integeration of teritories become the barrier in spreading Islam and thus is not truly favourable for Islam. But after the independence from Hindustan. Jamat e Islami became a loyal party to Pakistan and since then acting in the best interest of the country. They never did any demonstration in favour of India. The fact is that their contributions towards Jihad in Kashmir will never be forgetted. I believe that the Jamat's behaviour would be the same in Bangladesh. As the ideological people do not change their principals.

The killing thing is most difficult topic of all debates between Pakistanis and Bangladeshis. Both have different stand over this issue. Bangladeshis strongly believe that Pakistani military conducted massive killing operations in East Pakistan. Which resulted in death of uncountable number of Bangalis. While, on the other hand, Pakistanis believe that Pakistan's attempt to crush Anti-Pakistan demonstrations was similar to that of usual police operations, which sometimes backed by the military in usual manner in any country. And the firing, beating the protestors by the police/military men is as common in the rest of the world. You would have seen many protests inside Bangladesh, where police opened fire over their own Bangali brothers and sisters. Now, the question is that in 1971, when Pakistani Military opened fire over protestors and Anti-Pakistan elements, you declared it genocide and holocaust of Bangalis in the hands of Eastern Pakistanis. And now, when your own Bangali Police firing on you, what name you would like to give it? It would be interesting to knwo about it.

Anyway, it is just one of the many reasons of why Bangalis lost their lives and wealth during 1971 unrest in West Pakistan. Which resulted in the creation of Bangladesh. One of the other theory poped up from inside India, which I am sure that you would aware with. Some female writer correctly analysed the war of 1971 by saying that their were THREE different confontrations going on at that time. War between Anti-Pakistan and Pro-Pakistan elements, War between India and Pakistan and war between Anti-Pakistan and Pakistan Army. All the accounts of killings, found in Bangali libraries of today, are dedicated to Pakistan Army. While what the Pro-Pakistan elements done with Anti-Pakistan elements, what the Anti-Pakistan elements had done with Pro-Pakistan elements, What Indian had done with Pro-Pakistan elements, What Indians had done with the post war east Pakistan, which became Bangladesh, is always remain unknown to the Bangalis and to the rest of Pakistan.

One of the Bangali Freedom Fighter of 1971 Liberation movement, Lt Gen (Retd) SARDAR F.S. LODI, tells his story that how he became a Freedom Fighter, how he get trained in Indian camps on the other side of International border. What were their attitude towards Bangali Freedom Fighters. And also the activities of Indian Army after capturing East Pakistan. So the best friend of Bangladesh betryed it immediatly after its independence. This is not it. But he analysed the Indian RAW in details and described how this bloody organisation of India make its ways. He also wrote the REAL reasons of why India was interested to seperate East Pakistan from the West. A little intro to his book could be found from the following link.

Thanks.

Saj

----- Original Message -----

From: musasarkar

Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 10:24 AM

Subject: [ALOCHONA] Re: Consequence of Nizami's release


US-Saudi-Pak is an exclusive club. How can anybody else make real
friendship with them when it was your lord Jamaat and Nizami who worked
hand in hand with Pakistan with full US-Saudi support in 1971 in killing
and raping us abusing the name of our religion? It was your morally
and spiritually bankrupt lord Jamaat's jihad against our women and
innocent civilians. (And you religiously want us to forget those as
quickly as possible). First, you have to certify those evil acts of
1971 as great religious duties, then you will be able to make real and
everlasting friendship with them. You have to declare like Tarek Zia,
"BNP and Jamaat belong to the same family and we are now inseparable."
What more do you want us to show about a murderer and rapist unless he
is really shameless? What do you mean by constructive? When did lying,
covering up, defending evil, hypocrisy and deception become part of
someting constructive?

--- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, Wohid <bidrohee@...> wrote:
>
> Our million dollar question is - why you and your lord (BAL) then
failed to make them friends while Nizami could???? Why don't you blame
the court now that has released him? Or do you get yet another excuse to
blaming the Bangladesh judiciary being pocketed by the anti-liberation
forces? Then who else except you and your lord BAL left out of the
pocket of your anti-liberation forces??? You guys are really good at
biting at the bait when the fish jumps out of your catch!!!!! That is
the genuine characteristics of politically and ideologically bankrupt
fishermen. What else you still have to show us in your jihad against
Jamaat??? Come on man, be constructive and if those anti-liberation
forces are destructive as opposed to your constructive actions, they
will be automatically vanished and you will gain the people's love to
get them down and yourself up.......
>
> musasarkar m_musa92870@... wrote: The pressure from the axis of
US-Saudi-Pakistan finally succeeded. Jamaate Islami's Qamaruzzaman's
recent visit to their top master, US administration, has fully paid off.
Even though the foot soldiers of Jamaat/Shibir always spread US-Israeli
conspiracy theory about almost everything, we know very well who their
real masters are. Lets hope that the Saudi blackmailing of the poor
Bangladeshi laborers stops now at least for a little while. Our murderer
and rapist in chief of Al Badr is their royal guest. Can anybody do
anything about that, specially when the price of oil is hovering around
$140 a barrel.
> Nizami's velkibaji - Seriously sick Nizami is completely healthy right
after his release (and they call him Moulana!):
>
http://prothom-alo.com/archive/news_details_home.php?dt=2008-07-16&issue\
_id=985&nid=MTc0NzA=
> Out of all the arrested politicians, only Saudi royal guest Nizami
received special treatment:
> http://prothom-alo.com/print.php?t=h&nid=MTc1MTA=
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Robin Khundkar rkhundkar@...
> To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 1:40:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [ALOCHONA] Consequence of Nizami's release
>
> It pays to have loving friends among the establishment in the country
and powerful patrons abroad (USA & KSA). A winning combination with
slick marketing to emphasize their overall reasonableness and all around
good manners and a white wash of their blood stained traitorous past &
present.
>
> Robin Khundkar
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Dr. Anisur Rahman"
> Sent: Jul 16, 2008 7:31 AM
> To: alochona@yahoogroup s.com, mukto-mona@yahoogro ups.com,
banglarnari@ yahoogroups. com, dahuk@yahoogroups. com, sonarbangladesh@
yahoogroups. com
> Subject: [ALOCHONA] Consequence of Nizami's release
>
> Dear All,
>
> While the four party alliance was preparing for anti-government
movement, Motiur Rahman Nizami was freed on bail. He is the first senior
politician to receive bail in emergency. What will be its consequence?
Will Jamaat make a deal with the government?
>
> I tryied to analyse the issue in my article published at:
>
> http://www.sonarban gladesh.com/ article.php? ID=177
>
>
> Best regards.
>

__._,_.___

[Disclaimer: ALOCHONA Management is not liable for information contained in this message. The author takes full responsibility.]
To unsubscribe/subscribe, send request to alochona-owner@egroups.com



Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___