19 August 2008
Dear Moderator, MM: Please consider re-posting the following in MM reader's forum. Thanks with best regards. Sincerely, Mohammad Gani (USA).
*********************************************************************
Devil's Advocate: Taslima Nasrin
( Forwarded by: Mohammad Gani, USA).
By IBNlive.com
Sunday, 22 April 2007
Karan Thapar: Hello and welcome to Devil's Advocate. As the Indian
Government takes its time responding to Taslima Nasrin's application
for citizenship how does she respond to her critics? Those are the two
issues I shall tackle today in an interview with Taslima Nasrin. Ms
Nasrin you recently said 'I would like to be known more as an activist
who can influence society than as a writer. Are trying to change the
world'.
Taslima Nasrin: Yes. I have a dream, I dream of a beautiful world
where no women will be oppressed.
Karan Thapar: You have also said something else which I find very
perplexing. You said 'if you want to be a human being, a good person
you have to first be bad in this society.' Are you suggesting that
good people defy society they defy its values and its conventions and
therefore they are considered bad.
Taslima Nasrin: Yes I think so.
Karan Thapar: And are you a bad person in that sense.
Taslima Nasrin: Yes.
Karan Thapar: You defy society.
Taslima Nasrin: Yes.
Karan Thapar: And you defy its conventions.
Taslima Nasrin: Yes.
Karan Thapar: And you enjoy doing so.
Taslima Nasrin: Yes.
Karan Thapar: Your critics say that this is just posturing. They say
Taslima Nasrin says things, she does things, she adopts positions to
attract attention and give herself publicity.
Taslima Nasrin: No it's not true.
Karan Thapar: Are your critics being unfair?
Taslima Nasrin: Yes.
Karan Thapar: Let's begin by talking about some of the things you have
said about Islam. You have said it's not true that Islam is good for
humanity its not all good. Islam completely denies human rights. And
then later elsewhere you have written about what you called the
'venomous snake' of Islam. How do you justify these extreme views?
Taslima Nasrin: You know if any religion keeps people in ignorance, if
any religion allows the people to persecute other people of different
faith and if any religion keeps women in slavery then I can't accept
that religion.
Karan Thapar: You are saying Islam does all of that.
Taslima Nasrin: Yes.
Karan Thapar: But the truth Taslima Nasrin is that all over the world
Islam is recognised as a religion that perhaps has done more for
women's rights than any other in the area of education, inheritance
even giving them a legal identity in their marriage.
Taslima Nasrin: No it's not true. There is no equality between man and
women in marriage, divorce, child custody and inheritance under Islam.
Karan Thapar: In Islam for instance just to take inheritance women have a right to inherit, it's an inalienable right. Again in Islam a woman in a marriage is a legal entity of her own. The marriage itself is not just a sacrament it's a contract.
Taslima Nasrin: Yes but women do not get equality. Women get half of
the property than their brothers get.
Karan Thapar: Can I put something to you? As someone who is born as
Muslim you know that the fault really lies in the way Islam is
interpreted or the way Islam is enforced. But by blaming Islam itself,
which is what you are doing, aren't you pandering to the Western
world's present prejudice with Islam.
Taslima Nasrin: Of course not. I criticize Islam and also I criticize
Christianity, Judaism I criticize Hinduism because women are oppressed
by old religions. Old religions are anti-women. Religions were made
for men and men made religions for there own fun, for there own
interest.
Karan Thapar: So you are the enemy of all religions?
Taslima Nasrin: Yes.
Karan Thapar: When I say enemy, should I in fact be saying do you hate religion?
Taslima Nasrin: You know there are many people who believe in
religion. I do not hate those people. I consider them as human being.
But they believe in religion – that religion itself is against women.
It's not only the fundamentalists. Religion actually was created by
men for their own interest. Yes some people can believe in religion I
don't object it but the thing is that we should not practice religion
because it's against humanity, against humanism, against human rights,
against women's rights, against freedom of expression…
Karan Thapar: You are going even further than Marx ever went. Marx
described religion as the sigh of the oppressed creature, as the heart
of a heartless world, as the soul of soulless conditions. You are
saying something quite different. You are saying it's against
humanity.
Taslima Nasrin: It's against humanity.
Karan Thapar: And you don't say this for effect.
Taslima Nasrin: Because you know if women are oppressed by old
religions and if you do not believe in women's rights then you do not
believe in human rights, then you do not believe in humanism.
Karan Thapar: But your critics say that you are only saying this to
attract attention, that you are only saying this to give yourself
publicity to make yourself controversial…
Taslima Nasrin: No I don't need publicity. It's a dangerous thing to
say. The fundamentalist issued fatwa against me, they set price on my
head and I couldn't live in my own country I had to live in exile for
more than 12 years.
Karan Thapar: So you sincerely believe all these things?
Taslima Nasrin: I sincerely believe all these things.
Karan Thapar: All right lets come to something else that your critic
says. Let's come to your autobiographies. You have gone out of your way
in your autobiographies to give explicit details of your sexual
liaisons without consulting the other party and without carrying about
other party's right of privacy. How do you justify that except on the
grounds of providing 'forgive me cheap titillation'?
Taslima Nasrin: You know I wrote my autobiography and I wanted to tell
everything what happened to me everything.
Karan Thapar: But what about the other party, doesn't the other party
have a right to some privacy.
Taslima Nasrin: They didn't tell me that they need privacy.
Karan Thapar: Do they need to tell you?
Taslima Nasrin: Yes or if they told me I would not have listened to
them. If they cheated me if they exploited me why should I hide that?
Karan Thapar: But did they exploit you? They made love to you they
didn't expect that to be revealed to the world.
Taslima Nasrin: Why shouldn't I. I wanted to.
Karan Thapar: Is it ethical?
Taslima Nasrin: I think so.
Karan Thapar: Or was it simply done to attract attention to the book.
Taslima Nasrin: I don't need any attract attention.
Karan Thapar: You see its not just people's privacy that you have
invaded you have also compromised third party. For instance in one of
your autobiographies you reveal that Syed Shamsul Haq told you that he
was having a relationship with his sister-in-law. That poor woman
perhaps didn't want the world to know but you trumpet all over her
rights by revealing it.
Taslima Nasrin: You know I only mentioned the things what was important to me.
Karan Thapar: Why was this important to you?
Taslima Nasrin: Because first time I heard that one big man whom I
considered my idol or who was a big writer whom I respected very much
and he was saying that he was having sex with that woman or this
woman, he wanted to do that thing or this thing, that I actually
couldn't imagine.
Karan Thapar: Quite right. You wanted to teach him a lesson or you
wanted to pay him back in his own coin but as a result you have
compromised the poor sister-in-law. She may have wanted privacy, she
may have wanted secrecy she may not have wanted the world to know that
she was having a relationship with her brother-in-law you have done
that for her.
Taslima Nasrin: I have no intentions to embarrass her.
Karan Thapar: But you have done it.
Taslima Nasrin: No I did my things. I was writing my autobiography so
I have to tell everything that I knew was truth and I had to tell the
truth.
Karan Thapar: All right you say you have to tell the truth in which
case why did you settle out of court with H Jalal. When H Jalal first
accused you of writing fantasy and fiction you retorted that he was
speaking a pack of lies and yet when he took you to court you settled
out of court. You agreed to remove his name you agreed to in fact
expunge large sections of the description of your relationship with
him. Why?
Taslima Nasrin: It was actually done by my publisher.
Karan Thapar: You could have refused.
Taslima Nasrin: I refused that…
Karan Thapar: So you mean they did it without your permission?
Taslima Nasrin: It was just they changed the name. Already his name
was known and he filed case against me.
Karan Thapar: But then addition to changing the name large sections of
description of your relationship with him was expunged.
Taslima Nasrin: No.
Karan Thapar: It says so in the Hindu newspaper. December 19, 2003.
Taslima Nasrin: No it's false.
Karan Thapar: You never corrected it you never denied it.
Taslima Nasrin: I did that in the Bengali newspaper.
Karan Thapar: Why not in English?
Taslima Nasrin: They didn't ask me.
Karan Thapar: All right at least you changed the name. If you believe
what you are doing was justifiable and that you are telling the truth
why changed the name?
Taslima Nasrin: I didn't want to change the name but it was
publisher's pressure that I had to change the name.
Karan Thapar: Why did you give in to pressure.
Taslima Nasrin: I didn't want to … but publishes sends out my book a lot…
Karan Thapar: Without your permission?
Taslima Nasrin: without my permission.
Karan Thapar: Did you considered taking the publishers to court?
Taslima Nasrin: I did not and I don't think that it is a compromise.
There are lots of books of mine, which were banned by Bangladesh
government.
Karan Thapar: Your books may be banned but I am talking about the
principle of revealing people's personal details of invading their
privacy. I put it to you that your critics say Taslima Nasrin only
does this to titillate to attract attention to create controversy.
Taslima Nasrin: No it's not true.
Karan Thapar: Let me quote to you then another sentence from your
autobiography, which people say it proofs that she only writes to
attract attention. You say "I think a woman can maintain her chastity
even after maintaining sexual relationships with ten men. " That may
sound clever it may be catchy but it's meaningless.
Taslima Nasrin: No it's not meaningless. Actually what I said that
honesty.. one person can be honest one woman can be honest.
Karan Thapar: There is difference between honesty and chastity.
Chastity is not a state of mind it's a physical state.
Taslima Nasrin: You know there is a word in Bengali, which is sath
means honest and shotti means chaste woman. So there is no word for
man in that sense. So I related the word sath and shotti. Sath means
honest so one woman can be honest after having sexual relations with
ten men.
Karan Thapar: You sound a bit like humpty dumpty. He said I use words
to mean what I want them to mean. You have every right to do that as
an author the problem is it becomes very difficult to communicate and
almost impossible to understand. If you keep using words in this way
you are simply playing with them.
Taslima Nasrin: No actually you don't know Bengali. If you knew
Bengali you would understand that the two words sound the same like
sath and shotti.
Karan Thapar: Your critics say that Taslima Nasrin is her own worst enemy.
Taslima Nasrin: I don't think so. Critics can say anything. I know
what I am doing and I am telling the truth. I want to change the
society I want to make women conscious about their rights and freedom.
I don't want any religious law I don't want any patriarchal system.
Karan Thapar: Lets turn to your application to become an Indian
citizen. Its been almost two-years since you applied and even today a
decision has not ben taken on it. Meanwhile you visa has only been
extended for six-months at a time. Do you think you have been treated
fairly?
Taslima Nasrin: I don't think so. Most of the people in this country
as far as I know want me to be a citizen of India. I was persecuted in
my country and I had to live in exile for over 12-years. I speak
Bengali and I would love to live in Bengal, in India. I think its
humane to allow me to live in this country.
Karan Thapar: For two-years now the Indian Government hasn't given you
its decision. How much unhappiness has that caused you?
Taslima Nasrin: Yes I am unhappy and its really not a very good
condition that I'm living in. I live in constant tension that I might
have to leave.
Karan Thapar: The other thing is that they wont give you a visa for
more than six-months at a time. Businessmen can get a visa for a year
or more but they only give you an extension of six-months. Is that
unfair?
Taslima Nasrin: I dint know whether it is fair or unfair. But I am
unhappy with the way I have been treated by the Indian Government.
Karan Thapar: In March you told the PTI that the hold-up was because
the West Bengal government hadn't given a letter of recommendation to
you saying that you should be made an Indian citizen. Why did the West Bengal
government do so?
Taslima Nasrin: I think the West Bengal government banned my book because they
wanted to make Muslims of West Bengal happy. May be, if I live there the Muslims
will be unhappy.
Karan Thapar: So it's become a political issue?
Taslima Nasrin: Yes it has. I think so.
Karan Thapar: Have you raised this with Buddhadeb Bhattacharjee?
Taslima Nasrin: I tried meeting him so many times but it seems it's
impossible to get an access to him. He refused to meet me and I might
try again.
Karan Thapar: Are you trying with confidence or are you just trying it
because you think, you have to keep trying?
Taslima Nasrin: I have to keep trying because I love to live in India.
It's important for me to live in India.
Karan Thapar: In the meantime the All India Ibtehad Council has
announced a bounty of Rs 5 lakh for your life. Do you feel safe in
India?
Taslima Nasrin: Though it's not safe here but still I love to live in
India. I would live in India despite threats.
Karan Thapar: But aren't you scared that some fundamentalist, some mad
man might come and shoot you because there is a Rs 5 lakh bounty on
your head?
Taslima Nasrin: It can happen in any part of the world.
Fundamentalists are there everywhere. When I was living in Bangladesh,
the fundamentalist could kill me any moment. When I was living in
Europe, I got security but still fundamentalist could kill me there.
There was a constant threat.
Karan Thapar: So you aren't scared that some fundamentalist might come
and kill you because there is a bounty on your head?
Taslima Nasrin: No I'm not scared at all.
Karan Thapar: The paradox is that political situation is changing in
Bangladesh dramatically. Democracy is being revived, jehadist are
being arrested and even killed and people are breathing easy again.
How do you regard those changes in your own country?
Taslima Nasrin: I think it's temporary.
Karan Thapar: You don't see this as the beginning of a change in Bangladesh?
Taslima Nasrin: I would like to think that its the beginning of a
change in Bangladesh. But who would to power? It would be the same old
political parties who are pro-fundamentalists use Islam for their own
interests, to get votes from the ignorant masses. They would come to
power and would never allow me to live in my own country.
Karan Thapar: So are you saying that things in Bangladesh would only
change when the leaders of the Awami league and the Bangladeshi nation
party will be completely removed from politics? And that an altogether
new blood, new people be allowed to step in?
Taslima Nasrin: Yes I think so. A revolution is needed in Bangladesh.
Karan Thapar: Let me quote to you what the editor of the Bangladesh
newspaper The Daily Star wrote about you on March 21. He said "it is
time that the state moves to reinstate the rights of a woman who has
been wronged for over 13-years. She belongs here, whether or not
anybody likes it."
Taslima Nasrin: It's wonderful. I felt happy that somebody supported
me in Bangladesh. But this is one lonely voice and certainly not
enough to make to go back.
Karan Thapar: So India has to be your home in the foreseeable future,
since Bangladesh is not safe.
Taslima Nasrin: I think so.
Karan Thapar: Why don't you speak to the Indian government asking them
to be allowed to stay here, be given a longer visa and be given citizenship?
Taslima Nasrin: Yes, I would like to say that.
Karan Thapar: Regardless of the fact that your critics say she is posturing.
Taslima Nasrin: That's false.
Karan Thapar: It was a pleasure talking to you.
Taslima Nasrin: Thanks you.
***************************************
__._,_.___
*****************************************
Sign the Petition : Release the Arrested University Teachers Immediately : An Appeal to the Caretaker Government of Bangladesh
http://www.mukto-mona.com/human_rights/university_teachers_arrest.htm
*****************************************
Daily Star publishes an interview with Mukto-Mona
http://www.mukto-mona.com/news/daily_star/daily_star_MM.pdf
*****************************************
MM site is blocked in Islamic countries such as UAE. Members of those theocratic states, kindly use any proxy (such as http://proxy.org/) to access mukto-mona.
*****************************************
Mukto-Mona Celebrates 5th Anniversary
http://www.mukto-mona.com/Special_Event_/5_yrs_anniv/index.htm
*****************************************
Mukto-Mona Celebrates Earth Day:
http://www.mukto-mona.com/Special_Event_/Earth_day2006/index.htm
*****************************************
Kansat Uprising : A Special Page from Mukto-Mona
http://www.mukto-mona.com/human_rights/kansat2006/members/
*****************************************
MM Project : Grand assembly of local freedom fighters at Raumari
http://www.mukto-mona.com/project/Roumari/freedom_fighters_union300306.htm
*****************************************
German Bangla Radio Interviews Mukto-Mona Members:
http://www.mukto-mona.com/Special_Event_/Darwin_day/german_radio/
Mukto-Mona Celebrates Darwin Day:
http://www.mukto-mona.com/Special_Event_/Darwin_day/index.htm
*****************************************
Some FAQ's about Mukto-Mona:
http://www.mukto-mona.com/new_site/mukto-mona/faq_mm.htm
****************************************************
VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/
****************************************************
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
-Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe
__,_._,___