Mr. Ramjan:
People like you who follow the religion, but not the faith, are neither aware of the history of Islam, nor do they every bother to think beyond what they are taught on Moududi texts and Fridays at Mosques.
Your assertion that a "true Muslim cannot be secular" defies everything that Islam stands for. Islam is the only religion that encourages secular practices. If you kindly read well-documented Islamic history after Prophet Mohammed was exiled to Medina, he established the first Ummah. That Ummah was not a "Muslim Ummah", rather it was a Ummah of Muslims, Christians, Jews, Pagans, and Saebean traders. I can suggest at least 200 books, written by both Muslim and non-Muslim scholars on this, but the list is too long for this place.
Secondly, the only time the Muslim community became non-secular is when Caliph Omar, a known drunkard and a hot-head, decided to start the idea of the "Muslim Ummah" and lead a all-Muslim army to win over the "non-believers".
Thirdly, it was those non-secular Muslims who looted Kabaa and ransacked Mecca, the holiest place for the Muslim community. Need I also add that when the Wahabis (i.e. The fascist clan of Saud) conquered Mecca and decided to establish the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, they also ransacked Mecca? Historical fact!!
Fourthly, in Quran, Allah the Almighty repeatedly tells Prophet Mohammed that the Christians and Jews are the "people of the book", of Abrahamic faith. Prophet even considered them as part of our "Ummah", and even married non-muslims and had non-muslim companions. If that is not secular, I don't know what is.
Your last comment is so ridiculous that it doesn't deserve an answer. But I will respond anyway. You say that "Hitler and Mussolini were secular". Hitler wanted a establish a Germanic Christian nation, and Mussolini was a devout Roman Catholic. None of them were secular in any sense of the word. Hitler expelled German Jews, gypsies, and anyone who did not pass the "pure blood" test, were either sent to the concentration camps, or expelled from Germany. How on earth is that secular? Mussolini, on the other hand, was against anyone, any party, any activity that opposed his oppressive rule. You call them secular?
Perhaps, just perhaps once, people like you would look up the meaning of the word "Secular". I am guessing, you are not going to, so here goes:
Secular:
1. of or pertaining to worldly things or to things that not regards as religious, spiritual, or sacred; temporal
2. not pertaining to or connected with religion
3. Worldly rather than spiritual
Not so bad being a "secular" after all, eh?
Cyrus
From: Mohammed Ramjan <mramjan@hotmail.com>
To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2008 11:08:51 AM
Subject: RE: [ALOCHONA] Re: How Bangladesh should react to increasing influence of Islam
Despite of the subject/points for and against M. Anis and Ms Farida Majid, I have the followings:
There is no option for a true Muslim to be a secularist. Yeaa Kana budu – we only pray for you, Ibadat -which extend from personal life to statehood life.
Leading a multicultural life does not mean that a Muslim have to be secular.
Prophet Mohammed (sm) was not a secular, his shabi were not secular. Muslim Caliphates after prophet were not secular, how and from where some Muslims tend to be secular we do not understand. Western magnetic induced man and women can have such aqida which is far from Islam.
Secularist people can do all kinds of heinous act not the Islamist. Hitler Mussolini all was secular.
At the end I would request all the forum members to use modern English not the Victorian from which the west has shifted a long ago.
Thanks
Mohammed Ramjan Ali Bhuiyan
Kuwait
To: alochona@yahoogroup s.com
From: farida_majid@ hotmail.com
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 17:28:55 -0400
Subject: RE: [ALOCHONA] Re: How Bangladesh should react to increasing influence of Islam
I will comply with your request to explain the Qura'anic verse. Explicating the language of the Qur'an is always a pleasure, and in this case there could an additional reward of exposing the nature of falsehood, i.e., the basic premise of your mischievous piece. But I humbly refuse to engage in any "point by point" argument as per your invitation.
Wa la talbisoo alhaqqa bilbaTili wa taktumoo alhaqqa wa antum t'alamoona [2:42]
And cover not Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when ye know (what it is).
The verb root 'labasa' or 'cover' gives rise to other words such as 'lebaas' meaning cloth or clothes. So, here, 't-albisoo alhaqqa' meaning 'covering or cloaking the truth' indicates a strong sense of intentionality. In ...bil baTili ..., 'bi' is a frequently used preposition in Arabic most often translated in English as 'with'. The word 'baTil' can have many nuanced meanings such as 'falsehood', 'illegal' 'unjustified' 'harmful' etc.
The verse, therefore, is more than a simple interdiction against lying. It captures the act of deceitful men succinctly and cautions against indulging in telling the worst kind lies -- that which cleverly and intentionally conceals the truth in order to cause unjustified harm. Your article, along with some of the Jamaati-style propaganda, is the best example of what the Qur'an has explicitly forbidden us to do.
Your knowledge of Islam is indeed very poor otherwise you would not have used the word 'Islam' so indicriminately to describe such a variety of things ranging from dishonest political posturing, political propaganda, misogynistic politics and even the Arabic language of the Qur'an.
To say that almost all Islam-'ponthi' people were against the independence of Bangladesh is one of the most insulting remarks to the sovreignty of Bangladesh, to the general populace of this populous country, and it is surely one of the most sinful lies one can possibly utter! It is also an unforgivable insult to the religion of Islam in Bangladesh.
The truth is only a handful of crooks were involved in heinous activities during the 1971 War of Liberation intent on preventing the independence from Pakistan. And these crooks only pretended to be Pakistan's collaborators. They were much worse than that, and unfortunately they are still with us.. Any good Muslim, anywhere in the world, would hesitate to call them co-religionists.
Secularism, by the way, is a constitutional issue. It protects the rights of religions especially in a multicultural, multireligious country like Bangladesh.
Thanks.
Farida Majid
To: alochona@yahoogroup s.com
From: dr_anisur_rahman@ yahoo.com
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 06:30:54 +0000
Subject: [ALOCHONA] Re: How Bangladesh should react to increasing influence of Islam
It seems to me that your e-mail address has been hacked becuase it
looks unusual to me that a secularist like you are quoting from from
Quran. If it is not hacked, then the assumption I made in my article
that influence of Islam is increasing amoung Bangladeshis is true.
I do not know what the verse you mentioned means. My knowledge about
Islam is almost nil. Please give us a translation of it.
I will higly appreciate if you kindly let me know what are the
falsehoods I am trying to spread in my article. It contains 11
points and if you identify the point(s) you have question about, then
I will try to clarify my position.
Regards.
Anis
--- In alochona@yahoogroup s.com, Farida Majid <farida_majid@ ...>
wrote:
>
>
> How Bangladesh should react to such wicked exercise in
indecent exposure of lies?
> We should remind ourselves of the Qur'anic caution:
>
> Wa la talbisoo al-Haqqa bi alBaTili wa taktumu al-Haqqa wa
antum t'alamoona.
>
> --Sura
Baqarah, verse 42
>
> May Allah save us from such spread of falsehoods
that this author is spreading.
>
> -- Farida Majid
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear Alochoks,
>
> Like elsewhere in the world, the influence of religion is
increasing in Bangladesh. You will hardly find any mosque in Dhaka
in Friday which can provide space for all those who come to pray.
The spread of Hijab is also noticeable. Religion based political
parties are expanding their support base. It has posed a risk for
the country because countries like India are trying to create a
fundamentalist image of Bangladesh and using the rising Islam as a
tool for that. What should we do in this situation? I tried to
analyse it in my article published at:
>
> http://www.sonarban gladesh.com/ article.php? ID=235
>
> Please share your views on this critical issue.
>
> Regards.
>
> Anis
>
>
>
>
>
>
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