Actually no one asking anyone to leave but it is sort of hypocritical to say I prayed for a person who do not agree with my spiritual journey. It is absolutely fine to be present with the family, help out (If needed) with arrangements and most people of Bangladesh are comfortable with it.
It is not a major issue but I just wanted to have an idea about your point of view. However I am yet to get a logical answer. I absolutely support your spirit of brotherhood and compassion for each others. I do the same for my non-Muslim friends whenever opportunity presents itself.
Our noble prophet stood up to show respect for a Jewish person's funeral procession. So we have NO issues with showing respect, compassion and helping our fellow neighbors. But phrasing it as "Praying"" seems hollow to me. Here is the reference from Islamic scriptures on this issue.....
Hadith on Death: The Prophet stood up for the funeral of a Jew out of respect for his humanity
Hopefully this will help you with better understanding of the topic and Where Islam stand on it.
Shalom!
From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Oct 12, 2013 3:20 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] সরকারি নির্দেশে 'গণশ্রাদ্ধ' বন্ধ
Sent from my iPhone
Secular environment? Where?
Word, Shahid is just another bogus issue to put the minorities to their "right place", I suppose.
-Seuss
Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>> I cannot fathom any conspiracy here. However I have a feeling once again over excited supporters of BAL caused this. First of all (Religiously speaking--since "Sharaddha" is a religious event) there was NO need to include Muslims into the issue and (Mixing of religion and politics) get into "Shaheed" issue. Like Shraddho, the concept of "Shaheed" (Mostly used in religious context in Bangladesh), so the powerful BAL ulama protested it. Even though it is a non-issue when you look into it. The press around it caused damage to BAL. Like the supporters putting up pictures of political leaders inside Buddhist temple in Ramu.
Sadly (I speak about all political parties here) we do NOT think deeply before we and say things in public spaces. So it damages the party (Even when it has good intentions) at the end.
2. Mr. Q. Rahman, if you look up the word "pray" in the dictionary, you will find that one does not have to pray only to God or a god or a goddess.
>>>>>>>>> I agree. Kindly educate me into this. So WHO do you pray to? The open air? Mother earth? The stray cat running beside you? WHO?
To less educated person like myself, it sounds like "Mubbo-jumbo" that does not mean anything.
3. Personally I have no problem in joining a group assembled in front of a graveyard of a great Muslim man for his "atmar magferat kamona". As a matter of it is very common in our society.
>>>>>>>>>> To be more specific, the concept of atma and magfirat is VERY different for Muslims and non-Muslims. While our people FEEL for each other once we lose a people person from us (Regardless of religious background), it is again kind of symbolic ONLY.
I say this while showing a lot of respect for the spirit you have shown. Just pointing out the nuts and bolts of aspect of prayers.
4. I am sorry to say that inviting one for beef or pork dinner is not comparable to urging one to remember the good deeds of a great person and pray for the liberation of his or her departed soul. It all matters how clean is your heart. Only the dead are the subjects of "atmar magferat kamona" or "shraddha".
>>>>>>>> I used that as an EXAMPLE (ONLY) to make a point. Regardless of our warmth (Which is a good thing) we cannot serve beef to a practicing Hindu. So being respectful and sensitive about religious background is important. Similarly while I took part in certain Hindu families in the rituals (Including visit to the shamsan), I cannot say I prayed for that person.
This "Gonoshraddho" debacle is a fine example why it is important to THINK before we do anything. There are TONS of practical issues that requires attention from our political parties. Improving law and order situation, giving better protection in temples, upholding legal rights of minorities are some aspects. But most of us are good at making speech and but bad at delivering urgent needs of our minority communities.
IN other words less hollow/meaningless words and more meaningful action is what we NEED.
Shalom!
From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Oct 8, 2013 7:52 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] সরকারি নির্দেশে 'গণশ্রাদ্ধ' বন্ধ
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, October 6, 2013 11:03 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] সরকারি নির্দেশে 'গণশ্রাদ্ধ' বন্ধ
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Sunday, October 13, 2013
Re: [mukto-mona] সরকারি নির্দেশে ‘গণশ্রাদ্ধ’ বন্ধ
Ibn Abu Laila reported: Sahl ibn Hunaif and Qais ibn Sa'd ibn Ubaidah were in Al-Qadisiyyah when a funeral passed by them, so they stood up and it was said to them, "It is one of the local people." They both said: A funeral passed by the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, and he stood up. It was said to him, "It is a Jew." So the Prophet said, "Was he not a soul?"
Source: Sahih Bukhari 1250, Sahih Muslim 961
Grade: Muttafaqun Alayhi (authenticity agreed upon) according to Al-Bukhari and Imam Muslim
عَنْ ابْنِ أَبِي لَيْلَى أَنَّ قَيْسَ بْنَ سَعْدٍ وَسَهْلَ بْنَ حُنَيْفٍ كَانَا بِالْقَادِسِيَّةِ فَمَرَّتْ بِهِمَا جَنَازَةٌ فَقَامَا فَقِيلَ لَهُمَا إِنَّهَا مِنْ أَهْلِ الْأَرْضِ فَقَالَا إِنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ مَرَّتْ بِهِ جَنَازَةٌ فَقَامَ فَقِيلَ إِنَّهُ يَهُودِيٌّ فَقَالَ أَلَيْسَتْ نَفْسًا
1250 صحيح البخاري كِتَاب الْجَنَائِزِ إذا رأيتم الجنازة فقوموا
961 صحيح مسلم كِتَاب الْجَنَائِزِ قام النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم وأصحابه لجنازة يهودي حتى توارت
Source: Daily Hadith
-----Original Message-----
The problem is that orthodox people like Mr. Q. Rahman don't have the openness of mind to ignore the religious part of gonoshraddha and yet pay tributes to the martyrs. I don't think the Hindu leaders leave the congregation when it comes to visit a graveyards and pray for the departed souls.
What would have been the harm to let people do a little religious ceremony for their loved ones?
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
On Friday, October 11, 2013 6:44 PM, Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
1. Why this gonoshraddha after 43 years? Are we not commemorating the martyrs enough? We have 26th march, 14th december, and 16th December. Prayers, symposiums, visiting graveyards, etc. are involved. Don't we feel some thing fishy here?
2. "shahid" is not used mostly in religious contexts in Bangladesh.
3. Online Miriam Webster provides one meaning of 'pray' as asking or requesting for some thing in an humble manner. One can pray for a leave of absence.
4. In a secular environment it is wise not to religionize every thing.
1. Actually I know nothing about the proposed "Gonoshraddha". I smell some conspiracy in the proposed idea. I however have found the debate interesting.
-----Original Message-----
1. Actually I know nothing about the proposed "Gonoshraddha". I smell some conspiracy in the proposed idea. I however have found the debate interesting.
2. Mr. Q. Rahman, if you look up the word "pray" in the dictionary, you will find that one does not have to pray only to God or a god or a goddess.
3. Personally I have no problem in joining a group assembled in front of a graveyard of a great Muslim man for his "atmar magferat kamona". As a matter of it is very common in our society.
4. I am sorry to say that inviting one for beef or pork dinner is not comparable to urging one to remember the good deeds of a great person and pray for the liberation of his or her departed soul. It all matters how clean is your heart. Only the dead are the subjects of "atmar magferat kamona" or "shraddha".
From: QR <qrahman@netscape.net>
That's right. The word "Shaheed" is now a common property of all religious groups and has enriched all the languages of the Indian sub-continent without making any cognizance of the specific meaning provided in the Koran.
>>>>>>>>> Exactly. By showing the origin of the word, I tried to establish that point. It CAN be used in a secular way as well. However in a quest to prove as a "Lover of Islam" this ulama (From BAL party) gone a bit overboard. So these type of people (Who are powerful enough to stop a "Gono Shardho") should be more careful. No matter what kind of politics, religion (Or no religion) we feel close to, we should try to help our people. Such actions will alienate non-Muslims. "Dharma", "Crusade" and "Jihad" are also among the many such words rooted in religious texts. Sticking to the "true" meanings of such words would be religious fanaticism.
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