I will appreciate if you kindly explain from where you made a huge leap to conclude:
"There is no option for a true Muslim to be a secularist", and "Prophet Mohammed (sm) was not a secular, his shabi were not secular. Muslim Caliphates after prophet were not secular, ...".
I understand it is possible for different people (or party) to interpet Quaran in different ways (sometimes intentionally to satisfy their own ulterior motives and sometimes unintentionally without any ulterior motive), but I will apprecaite if you can provide some explanation of your conclusions which deos not necessarily agree with lot of conventional beleives.
Thanks,
- mashuque
----- Original Message ----
From: Mohammed Ramjan <mramjan@hotmail.com>
To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2008 8:08:51 AM
Subject: RE: [ALOCHONA] Re: How Bangladesh should react to increasing influence of Islam
To: alochona@yahoogroup s.com
From: farida_majid@ hotmail.com
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 17:28:55 -0400
Subject: RE: [ALOCHONA] Re: How Bangladesh should react to increasing influence of Islam
Talk to your Yahoo! Friends via Windows Live Messenger. Find Out How
From: Mohammed Ramjan <mramjan@hotmail.com>
To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2008 8:08:51 AM
Subject: RE: [ALOCHONA] Re: How Bangladesh should react to increasing influence of Islam
Despite of the subject/points for and against M. Anis and Ms Farida Majid, I have the followings:
There is no option for a true Muslim to be a secularist. Yeaa Kana budu – we only pray for you, Ibadat -which extend from personal life to statehood life.
Leading a multicultural life does not mean that a Muslim have to be secular.
Prophet Mohammed (sm) was not a secular, his shabi were not secular. Muslim Caliphates after prophet were not secular, how and from where some Muslims tend to be secular we do not understand. Western magnetic induced man and women can have such aqida which is far from Islam.
Secularist people can do all kinds of heinous act not the Islamist. Hitler Mussolini all was secular.
At the end I would request all the forum members to use modern English not the Victorian from which the west has shifted a long ago.
Thanks
Mohammed Ramjan Ali Bhuiyan
Kuwait
To: alochona@yahoogroup s.com
From: farida_majid@ hotmail.com
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 17:28:55 -0400
Subject: RE: [ALOCHONA] Re: How Bangladesh should react to increasing influence of Islam
Dear Anis saheb,
I will comply with your request to explain the Qura'anic verse. Explicating the language of the Qur'an is always a pleasure, and in this case there could an additional reward of exposing the nature of falsehood, i.e., the basic premise of your mischievous piece. But I humbly refuse to engage in any "point by point" argument as per your invitation.
Wa la talbisoo alhaqqa bilbaTili wa taktumoo alhaqqa wa antum t'alamoona [2:42]
And cover not Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when ye know (what it is).
The verb root 'labasa' or 'cover' gives rise to other words such as 'lebaas' meaning cloth or clothes. So, here, 't-albisoo alhaqqa' meaning 'covering or cloaking the truth' indicates a strong sense of intentionality. In ...bil baTili ..., 'bi' is a frequently used preposition in Arabic most often translated in English as 'with'. The word 'baTil' can have many nuanced meanings such as 'falsehood', 'illegal' 'unjustified' 'harmful' etc.
The verse, therefore, is more than a simple interdiction against lying. It captures the act of deceitful men succinctly and cautions against indulging in telling the worst kind lies -- that which cleverly and intentionally conceals the truth in order to cause unjustified harm. Your article, along with some of the Jamaati-style propaganda, is the best example of what the Qur'an has explicitly forbidden us to do.
Your knowledge of Islam is indeed very poor otherwise you would not have used the word 'Islam' so indicriminately to describe such a variety of things ranging from dishonest political posturing, political propaganda, misogynistic politics and even the Arabic language of the Qur'an.
To say that almost all Islam-'ponthi' people were against the independence of Bangladesh is one of the most insulting remarks to the sovreignty of Bangladesh, to the general populace of this populous country, and it is surely one of the most sinful lies one can possibly utter! It is also an unforgivable insult to the religion of Islam in Bangladesh.
The truth is only a handful of crooks were involved in heinous activities during the 1971 War of Liberation intent on preventing the independence from Pakistan. And these crooks only pretended to be Pakistan's collaborators. They were much worse than that, and unfortunately they are still with us. Any good Muslim, anywhere in the world, would hesitate to call them co-religionists.
Secularism, by the way, is a constitutional issue. It protects the rights of religions especially in a multicultural, multireligious country like Bangladesh.
Thanks.
Farida Majid
To: alochona@yahoogroup s.com
From: dr_anisur_rahman@ yahoo.com
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 06:30:54 +0000
Subject: [ALOCHONA] Re: How Bangladesh should react to increasing influence of Islam
Talk to your Yahoo! Friends via Windows Live Messenger. Find Out How
I will comply with your request to explain the Qura'anic verse. Explicating the language of the Qur'an is always a pleasure, and in this case there could an additional reward of exposing the nature of falsehood, i.e., the basic premise of your mischievous piece. But I humbly refuse to engage in any "point by point" argument as per your invitation.
Wa la talbisoo alhaqqa bilbaTili wa taktumoo alhaqqa wa antum t'alamoona [2:42]
And cover not Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when ye know (what it is).
The verb root 'labasa' or 'cover' gives rise to other words such as 'lebaas' meaning cloth or clothes. So, here, 't-albisoo alhaqqa' meaning 'covering or cloaking the truth' indicates a strong sense of intentionality. In ...bil baTili ..., 'bi' is a frequently used preposition in Arabic most often translated in English as 'with'. The word 'baTil' can have many nuanced meanings such as 'falsehood', 'illegal' 'unjustified' 'harmful' etc.
The verse, therefore, is more than a simple interdiction against lying. It captures the act of deceitful men succinctly and cautions against indulging in telling the worst kind lies -- that which cleverly and intentionally conceals the truth in order to cause unjustified harm. Your article, along with some of the Jamaati-style propaganda, is the best example of what the Qur'an has explicitly forbidden us to do.
Your knowledge of Islam is indeed very poor otherwise you would not have used the word 'Islam' so indicriminately to describe such a variety of things ranging from dishonest political posturing, political propaganda, misogynistic politics and even the Arabic language of the Qur'an.
To say that almost all Islam-'ponthi' people were against the independence of Bangladesh is one of the most insulting remarks to the sovreignty of Bangladesh, to the general populace of this populous country, and it is surely one of the most sinful lies one can possibly utter! It is also an unforgivable insult to the religion of Islam in Bangladesh.
The truth is only a handful of crooks were involved in heinous activities during the 1971 War of Liberation intent on preventing the independence from Pakistan. And these crooks only pretended to be Pakistan's collaborators. They were much worse than that, and unfortunately they are still with us. Any good Muslim, anywhere in the world, would hesitate to call them co-religionists.
Secularism, by the way, is a constitutional issue. It protects the rights of religions especially in a multicultural, multireligious country like Bangladesh.
Thanks.
Farida Majid
To: alochona@yahoogroup s.com
From: dr_anisur_rahman@ yahoo.com
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 06:30:54 +0000
Subject: [ALOCHONA] Re: How Bangladesh should react to increasing influence of Islam
Dear Ms. Farida Majid,
It seems to me that your e-mail address has been hacked becuase it
looks unusual to me that a secularist like you are quoting from from
Quran. If it is not hacked, then the assumption I made in my article
that influence of Islam is increasing amoung Bangladeshis is true.
I do not know what the verse you mentioned means. My knowledge about
Islam is almost nil. Please give us a translation of it.
I will higly appreciate if you kindly let me know what are the
falsehoods I am trying to spread in my article. It contains 11
points and if you identify the point(s) you have question about, then
I will try to clarify my position.
Regards.
Anis
--- In alochona@yahoogroup s.com, Farida Majid <farida_majid@ ...>
wrote:
>
>
> How Bangladesh should react to such wicked exercise in
indecent exposure of lies?
> We should remind ourselves of the Qur'anic caution:
>
> Wa la talbisoo al-Haqqa bi alBaTili wa taktumu al-Haqqa wa
antum t'alamoona.
>
> --Sura
Baqarah, verse 42
>
> May Allah save us from such spread of falsehoods
that this author is spreading.
>
> -- Farida Majid
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear Alochoks,
>
> Like elsewhere in the world, the influence of religion is
increasing in Bangladesh. You will hardly find any mosque in Dhaka
in Friday which can provide space for all those who come to pray.
The spread of Hijab is also noticeable. Religion based political
parties are expanding their support base. It has posed a risk for
the country because countries like India are trying to create a
fundamentalist image of Bangladesh and using the rising Islam as a
tool for that. What should we do in this situation? I tried to
analyse it in my article published at:
>
> http://www.sonarban gladesh.com/ article.php? ID=235
>
> Please share your views on this critical issue.
>
> Regards.
>
> Anis
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> Get thousands of games on your PC, your mobile phone, and the web
with Windows®.
> http://clk.atdmt. com/MRT/go/ 108588800/ direct/01/
>
It seems to me that your e-mail address has been hacked becuase it
looks unusual to me that a secularist like you are quoting from from
Quran. If it is not hacked, then the assumption I made in my article
that influence of Islam is increasing amoung Bangladeshis is true.
I do not know what the verse you mentioned means. My knowledge about
Islam is almost nil. Please give us a translation of it.
I will higly appreciate if you kindly let me know what are the
falsehoods I am trying to spread in my article. It contains 11
points and if you identify the point(s) you have question about, then
I will try to clarify my position.
Regards.
Anis
--- In alochona@yahoogroup s.com, Farida Majid <farida_majid@ ...>
wrote:
>
>
> How Bangladesh should react to such wicked exercise in
indecent exposure of lies?
> We should remind ourselves of the Qur'anic caution:
>
> Wa la talbisoo al-Haqqa bi alBaTili wa taktumu al-Haqqa wa
antum t'alamoona.
>
> --Sura
Baqarah, verse 42
>
> May Allah save us from such spread of falsehoods
that this author is spreading.
>
> -- Farida Majid
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear Alochoks,
>
> Like elsewhere in the world, the influence of religion is
increasing in Bangladesh. You will hardly find any mosque in Dhaka
in Friday which can provide space for all those who come to pray.
The spread of Hijab is also noticeable. Religion based political
parties are expanding their support base. It has posed a risk for
the country because countries like India are trying to create a
fundamentalist image of Bangladesh and using the rising Islam as a
tool for that. What should we do in this situation? I tried to
analyse it in my article published at:
>
> http://www.sonarban gladesh.com/ article.php? ID=235
>
> Please share your views on this critical issue.
>
> Regards.
>
> Anis
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> Get thousands of games on your PC, your mobile phone, and the web
with Windows®.
> http://clk.atdmt. com/MRT/go/ 108588800/ direct/01/
>
Talk to your Yahoo! Friends via Windows Live Messenger. Find Out How
Talk to your Yahoo! Friends via Windows Live Messenger. Find Out How
[Disclaimer: ALOCHONA Management is not liable for information contained in this message. The author takes full responsibility.]
To unsubscribe/subscribe, send request to alochona-owner@egroups.com
Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe
__,_._,___