Shalom!
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Mar 30, 2013 5:46 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Fwd: এই খবরটার সত্যতা কি? ওদের কি ওয়েব আছে?
exporting violence did not work well for anyone. So we are against it. Similarly IF BJP tries to export violence in our country, it will be treated in the same manner.
Shalom!
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Fwd: এই খবরটার সত্যতা কি? ওদের কি ওয়েব আছে?
You are blaming BJP for meddling into Bangladesh affairs
Shalom!
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Fwd: এই খবরটার সত্যতা কি? ওদের কি ওয়েব আছে?
>>>>>>>>>> Actually we were TALKING about BJP. NOT Jamat or Huji
Simply sharing CORRECT information about BJP to replace misleading perception.
Looks like member Das did not even read the discussion but (By mistake) "perceived" we are talking about Jamat. Actually we were DISCUSSING (Not directing) what BJP does as a party. NOTHING more.
Shalom!
Sent: Sat, Mar 23, 2013 4:36 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Fwd: এই খবরটার সত্যতা কি? ওদের কি ওয়েব আছে?
>>>>>>>>> Let me share a recent "Update" on BJP. Recently they expressed their wish to march towards "Dhaka" (Capital of Bangladesh). As per reports, they were forced to stop at the border.
One more time, ground reality differs from your "PERCEPTION" of BJP of India.
Another report says....
BJP's march to Dhaka stopped in Tripura
BJP nationalism is for India only
>>>>>>>>> As I said, REALITY does not fit into your posts. It is better to learn about any topic BEFORE we want to share opinions on it. ;-)
Shalom!
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Fwd: এই খবরটার সত্যতা কি? ওদের কি ওয়েব আছে?
From: QR <qrahman@netscape.net>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Fwd: এই খবরটার সত্যতা কি? ওদের কি ওয়েব আছে?
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, March 19, 2013, 9:33 AM
>>>>>>>> Sure they are. They are ALSO preach and believe in "Hindu Nationalism". The percent of Muslim population in India is large and they do mosque breaking and killing Muslim "Nationalism" quite well.
Member Sushanta is from India (Correct me if I am wrong here). So I am sure he knows a bit more about BJP than others.
If you are not aware of their brand of "Nationalism", we can try to bring some of their "Amalnama" to Mukto-mona front.
If you are against communal ism, it would be better to be consistant on your ideals. :-)
Shalom!
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Mar 18, 2013 4:33 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Fwd: এই খবরটার সত্যতা কি? ওদের কি ওয়েব আছে?
From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
Subject: [mukto-mona] Re: Fwd: এই খবরটার সত্যতা কি? ওদের কি ওয়েব আছে?
To: "Sushanta Kar" <karsushanta40@gmail.com>
Cc: "mukto-mona" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, March 17, 2013, 3:01 PM
To: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 1:46 PM
Subject: Fwd: এই খবরটার সত্যতা কি? ওদের কি ওয়েব আছে?
সুবিমলদা,
আমি দীর্ঘদিন ধরেই কোন পক্ষ না নিয়েই শাহাবাগ অধ্যয়ন করছিলাম। কারণ লীগ নিয়ে আমি বড়ই সন্দিহান। তেমনি ভারতীয় সম্প্রসারণ বাদ নিয়ে। আর জামাতকে যদিও সাম্প্রদায়িক বলেই ভাবি, তবু ভারতে যে ভাবে বিযেপির সঙ্গে এক করে দেখছিলেন অনেকে সেটি মেনে নিতে বেগ পেতে হচ্ছে। কারণটি সংক্ষিপ্ত, আমাদের দেশে রাষ্ট্র,শাসক দলকে সঙ্গে নিয়ে নেলী ১৯৮৩ বা গুজরাট ২০০২ বা মুম্বাই ১৯৯২র খুনিদের ফাঁসি দাবি করতে কেউ সাহসী হবে না। এতো দুর্বল নয় বিজেপি। আপনার মন্তব্যগুলোও আমি অধ্যয়ন করছিলাম মুক্তমনাতে নীরবে। আজ মনে হলো, আমার এক বন্ধুর লেখা পড়াই। আপনার অভিমত জানতে পেলে ভালো লাগবে। লেখাটি এক সংগে আর দুটো কাগজ ছেপেছে শিলচরে।
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Sunday, March 31, 2013
Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Fwd: এই খবরটার সত্যতা কি? ওদের কি ওয়েব আছে?
it is you who is protective of Islamist organizations who exports Islamic terrorism abroad.
>>>>>>>>> Incorrect statement. I have been against violence and that did not change.
-----Original Message-----
I am not at all protective of BJP, it is you who is protective of Islamist organizations who exports Islamic terrorism abroad. My point is, if you export terrorism abroad, you are likely to face it from abroad elsewhere. If you have enough moral courage, stop treating minority as your domestic animals who can be slaughtered at will.
On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 2:25 PM, QR <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
Why are you so protective of communal organization like BJP?
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tue, Mar 26, 2013 5:02 pm
It is pointless as usual to argue with a blind Islamist of your variety. If Jehadis can be exported, so can the Hindutwabadis like BJP. What is Gander for someone can't be Goose for someone else. Hope you got the point. Learn manners, correct yourself before you venture to correct others.
On Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 10:34 PM, QR <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Sun, Mar 24, 2013 10:02 am
You are blaming BJP for meddling into Bangladesh affairs keeping a blind eye to the participation of the Bangladeshi Jehadis all over the world in the holy wars to further the cause of Islam.
On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 6:54 PM, QR <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
If Jamat, Huji etc. can carry out bombing campaign across India, BJP can also do whatever they wish
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
If Jamat, Huji etc. can carry out bombing campaign across India, BJP can also do whatever they wish. Mr. Rahman being blind to misdeeds of his coreligionists is not expected to wake up to reality.
On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 9:26 PM, QR <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
There is a difference between BJP and Jamati brands of nationalisms.
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wed, Mar 20, 2013 7:08 am
There is a difference between BJP and Jamati brands of nationalisms. BJP nationalism is for India only. Jamati nationalism, on the other hand, is for Muslim-Ummah, which overflows across any state boundary (worldwide), just like communism. As a result, Communist and Islamist have common mindset, meaning both believe in some sort of internationalism. Communism and Wahabism do not believe in a particular nationality.
If you remember - Communists from West Bengal was rooting for China during the Indo-China war. Do you think BJP members will ever do that for any reason? Let me also tell you - if there is a war again between Pakistan and Bangladesh, for whatever reason, all Islamists will gladly help Pakistani forces and will not hesitate to kill any Bangladeshi, who oppose them; do you have any doubt about it?
Jiten Roy
BJP, on the other hand, is a fervent nationalist party.
-----Original Message-----
Sushanta Kar is the usual poster-child of communism. These people are forever confused, just like Islamists. They possess similar mindset. That's why he could not make the distinction between Jamat and BJP.
Let me explain to him differences – 1) Jamat is a sister organization of a worldwide network that cares only for the Muslim-Ummah around the world, meaning it care less for the interest of a particular nation; 2) Razakar Bahini is an anti-Bangladeshi militant outfit that fought against the independence of Bangladesh. BJP, on the other hand, is a fervent nationalist party.
I could cite many more differences, but – what's the point; it's harder to awake someone who is pretending to sleep. I have no patience for teaching a political novice.
Jiten Roy
Sushanta babu
Your concerns are with AL, Indian expansionism, and the powerful BJP. You have not expressed any concerns with BNP which was in power for many years and is still a potential party to be in power again. To you Jamat is an insignificant (merely a communal one) force and hence should not be a matter of much concern. (Correct me if I have misread you). You have your own political and ideological views. That make you see things in a particular way.
I have been observing the politics in Bangladesh (and erstwhile East Pakistan) for a long time. I am more concerned with BNP than with AL and I have expressed my views many a time. I am not going into the details now as I believe you should already have some knowledge about it.
While BJP is a nationalist force, Jamat is not. Jamat is not a weak force. It has a closely knit extensive and intensive network which even is superior to that of communist parties. It has different operational levels. The topmost level is simply the tip of an iceberg which can destroy the whole the Titanic (read whole democratic and secular system of the country). It has armed cadres (you are getting news about what they are doing after the verdicts against the war criminals. They not only destroy temples, they also kill police. It's network also covers press and media, madrassas, clinics, banks, educational institutions, and NGOs. It's political beliefs are based on its founder Mowdoodi's theological-political theories which many Islamic thinkers have described as unIslamic. Mowdoodi was awarded death penalty in Pakistan for instigating anti-Ahmadiya riots. Saudi intervention saved his life. Ahmadiyas have been declared non-Muslims in Pakistan. Nobel Lauraeate Prof. Salam was an Ahmadia i.e., not a Muslim in Pakistan. It acted as the collaborators of the Pakistan occupation army in 1971. They (as the members of the Al Badar bahini) started systematically killing the progressive forces in Bangladesh. They had a long list which they could not finish as the country was liberated. Even BNP leader Barrister Mowdud Ahmed has once said that these Al Badar members were more dangerous than the Pakistani army as the former's plan was to criple the cultural front by killing the enlightened and progressive intellectuals among the Bengalis. Jamat is anti-Bengali nationalism and anti-Bengali culture. This party does not believe in secularism and many of their important advisers favor replacing the current legal system with Sharia law (you might have seen the comments of one such adviser Abdul Hannan Shah in Muktomona forum). Now it is up to you how you would judge BJP vis-a-vis Jamat-e-Islami.
Indian hegemony and big brotherly attitude (I am not sure if the term "expansionist" can be used in the context of Bangladesh) and her tendency to have a bigger share in all dealings with Bangladesh. But you are overlooking the Saudi influence (using petrodollars) in Bangladesh. Rise in fanaticism and Islamic militancy in Bangladesh have been largely due to this.
Now let me say some thing about the article by Arup Baishya which you have given to me as an attachment. I am happy that he has congratulated the Shahbag group and expressed optimism that some thing good will come out of it. The framework (globalization and its beneficiaries among the professionals, etc.) he has used for analyzing the situation in Bangladesh focuses on the ideally ultimate solution for the country. In that sense it is too theoretical. Shahbag movement is much more straightforward: The war criminals must be punished. No compromise on it. No conspiracy---whoever the conspirators are---will be acceptable. This trial has already been overdue. Accomplishment of fair trial will relieve the country of the big burden of inaction on the part of the nation with respect to these criminals. The other purpose is to emphasize on the great spirits of independence. Nothing more than that.
I want to disagree with Baishya that the organizers are all bloggers and professionals. We are all bloggers. They include bloggers, non-bloggers, professionals, and non-professionals. Most importantly they are activists and they are risking their lives. Baishya has undermined their size, support base, and strength. He has lamented the security and logistics provided to them by the ruling party. What is wrong with that? BNP should do the same thing if it sincerely believes in trying the war criminals. Unfortunately Khaleda Zia has echoed what Sayyidi said to the judge: You have been coerced by the atheists and given me death penalty by breaking the law.
Baishya has referred to Camus and has expressed his disapproval of death penalty by hanging. But the thing is that death penalty as the highest form of punishment is legal in Bangladesh. UK does not have it although it engages in committing and supporting many extra-judicial killings in the foreign lands. Many underground parties including communist parties and Jihadi and radical groups are continually doing it. Baishya's disapproval is irrelevant here.
Regards.
From: Sushanta Kar <karsushanta40@gmail.com>
সুচরিতেষু,
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