RE: [ALOCHONA] Obsolete Verses in Qoraan

Dear Turkman:
 
I will respond to all of your stereotyped questions inshallah. By the way I thought you were a smart man but you turned out to be another irrational unwise man who leaned on the general out of context excerpts which you had plagiarised from known un-Islamic sources. I am surprised at the depth of your poor knowledge. Could you not come out with something more constructive? There have been so many well-established clear mass-media arguments against the issues you said that I am shocked by your understanding of the Holy Quran.
 
Nevertheless, I will be direct and straight in to the responses:
 
A. As to your so many allegations against Quran being hostile and brutal towards non-Muslims - at War my responses:
 
what do you expect a warrior to do? Kiss him during war? Are you not in the believer of 'precision attack'?
did you not read the Vogobt Geeta of the Hindus where instructions are there for holy war and not to get diverted with morality issues against infidels?
Is there any verse in the Quran which says to attack innocent people or non-aggressors?
The verses that you quoted are from Surah Taoba and do you not knwo those are instructions for war?
Do you not know the Quranic instructions not to attack if they don't attack?
STOP quoting out of context.
 
B. As to women inheritance: I think you forgot to read my article about that on daily star and I welcome you to read that again. By the way do you not know that the Holy Prophet(pbuh) did not leave any inheritance to his beloved daughter and gave all to sadaqah? People like you with little knowledge of Islam is prssing for inheritance at the same time kicking men out of their family homes - snatching children from fathers and alienating them and at the same time suing them for maintenace and pushing formation of organisations like 'Fathers for Justice' in UK. THINK.
 
C. Quran is the only Holy Scrpture that restricts marriage numbers - not your Bible - not any Hindu scripture. You are not authorised to lust on other women and have adulterous relationship when your wife has sexual limitations - by illness or otehr reasons. By nature men are polygamous. You know the nature and you know there are more women than men in the world. What do you want the umarried women to do? I bet you are thinking of test driving. I have no words to explain the number of adulterous relationships in the so called developed countries.
 
D. About scientific errors:
 
Please wake up!! These are dead arguments against Quran. There was a debate between your so called Dr.Campbell - who even wrote a book on the issues that you mentioned and look what was his situation at debate. He became a laughing dunce -
 
www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBan1fxEvHY
 
 
Have you watched the video? Now shut up. Read 'Quran, Bible and Science' - by Maurice Bucaile. Now if you tell me you did not read that - then an illiterate and uneducated man has no legs to stand on.
 
E. About women beating? Sorry you forgot to add 'lightly' to the beating part - probably intentionally. Read Hadith first - this is a symbolic gesture - not beating up. Now are you going to say you do not trust Hadith?
 
Mufassil Islam

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To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
CC: tritiomatra@yahoogroups.com; dhakamails@yahoogroups.com; sa7rong@yahoogroups.com; sonarbangladesh@yahoogroups.com; Diagnose@yahoogroups.com
From: turkman@sbcglobal.net
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 14:55:29 -0700
Subject: [ALOCHONA] Obsolete Verses in Qoraan

How many times do I have to post those obsolete Verses in Qoraan? Let me know, if the following are not enough and you need more ...!   1. Kill, Enslave, Collect Ransom:   Qur'an 47:4-15 "When you clash with the unbelieving Infidels in battle (fighting Jihad in Allah's Cause), smite their necks until you overpower them, killing and wounding many of them. At length, when you have thoroughly subdued them, bind them firmly, making (them) captives. Thereafter either generosity or ransom (them based upon what benefits Islam) until the war lays down its burdens. Thus are you commanded by Allah to continue carrying out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam."   Qur'an 9:5 "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."   Qur'an 9:123 "Fight the unbelievers around you, and let them find harshness in you."    2 Females = One Male:   "Allah prescribes with regard to your children: To one of masculine sex falls (in the division of an estate) just as much as to two of the feminine sex" (4:11). "Allaah commands you as regards your children's (inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females" [al-Nisa' 4:11] "And let two witnesses among your men testify to it. And if it cannot be two men, then it should be a man and two women, such ones as are agreeable to you – (two women) so that (in the case) that one of them errs, the one (the one who does not err) may remind the other (the one who errs) of the true state of affairs" (2:282). "Property and sons are the ornament of life in this world" (18:46).   3. Not limit on Slave Girls:   4:3 "So marry women as it befits you, two, three, or four; and if you fear that you are not just to all of them, then (marry) one or whatever is in your legal possession (Slave)".   4. Arabs are the best (what about Bengalis?):   Translation by M.H. Shakir   "3.110":    You are the best of the nations raised up for (the benefit of) men; you enjoin what is right and forbid the wrong and believe in Allah; and if the followers of the Book had believed it would have been better for them; of them (some) are believers and most of them are transgressors.   5. Do not befriend Jews and Christians (Just keep getting their Charity only?):   "5.51":    O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.   6. Idolators are Dirty (Why? Hindus don't take Showers or what?) :   "9.28":    O you who believe! the idolaters are nothing but unclean, so they shall not approach the Sacred Mosque after this year; and if you fear poverty then Allah will enrich you out of His grace if He please; surely Allah is Knowing Wise.   7. Seas flow (from where to where?) :   "55.19":    .He has made the two seas to flow freely (so that) they meet together: "55.20":    Between them is a barrier which they cannot pass. -----------------    8. Sneak Attack or Ambush:   009.005 YUSUFALI: But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. PICKTHAL: Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. SHAKIR: So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.   9. Looting the defeated Nations:   Quran 8.41 YUSUFALI: And know that out of all the booty that ye may acquire (in war), a fifth share is assigned to Allah,- and to the Messenger, and to near relatives, orphans, the needy, and the wayfarer,- if ye do believe in Allah and in the revelation We sent down to Our servant on the Day of Testing,- the Day of the meeting of the two forces. For Allah hath power over all things. PICKTHAL: And know that whatever ye take as spoils of war, lo! a fifth thereof is for Allah, and for the messenger and for the kinsman (who hath need) and orphans and the needy and the wayfarer, if ye believe in Allah and that which We revealed unto Our slave on the Day of Discrimination, the day when the two armies met. And Allah is Able to do all things.   10 Jews & Christians would become Swine and Apes (When?) :   YUSUFALI: Say: "Shall I point out to you something much worse than this, (as judged) by the treatment it received from Allah? those who incurred the curse of Allah and His wrath, those of whom some He transformed into apes and swine, those who worshipped evil;- these are (many times) worse in rank, and far more astray from the even path!" PICKTHAL: Shall I tell thee of a worse (case) than theirs for retribution with Allah? (Worse is the case of him) whom Allah hath cursed, him on whom His wrath hath fallen and of whose sort Allah hath turned some to apes and swine, and who serveth idols. Such are in worse plight and further astray from the plain road. SHAKIR: Say: Shall I inform you of (him who is) worse than this in retribution from Allah? (Worse is he) whom Allah has cursed and brought His wrath upon, and of whom He made apes and swine, and he who served the Shaitan; these are worse in place and more erring from the straight path.   11. Earth is flat:   Sura Taha (20:53) : Who has made earth for you like a bed (spread out); and has opened paths for you therein; and has sent down water from the sky. And We have brought forth with it various kinds of vegetation. Sura Az-Zukhruf (43:10) : Who has made for you the earth like a bed, and has made for you roads therein, in order that you may find your way.   12. Beat your Women:   Quran 4:34 Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) BEAT THEM; but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).   13. Meteors are Missiles shot at Satan:   067.005 YUSUFALI: And we have, (from of old), adorned the lowest heaven with Lamps, and We have made such (Lamps) (as) missiles to drive away the Evil Ones, and have prepared for them the Penalty of the Blazing Fire. PICKTHAL: And verily We have beautified the world's heaven with lamps, and We have made them missiles for the devils, and for them We have prepared the doom of flame. SHAKIR: And certainly We have adorned this lower heaven with lamps and We have made these missiles for the Shaitan, and We have prepared for them the chastisement of burning.   14. We are born out of Clot of Blood (when Science proves we were never that in our mother's womb) :   Quran-23:14: Then fashioned We the drop a CLOT OF CONGEALED BLOOD then fashioned We the Clot a little lump (foetus), fashioned We the little lump into bones, then clothed the bones with flesh, and then produced it another creation. So blessed be Allah, the Best of Creators. ( Bengali translated Quran said: "Zamaa't Raokto theeke Manoosh banieesi" And this Ayat has been repeated again and again throughout the Quran ) Quran-75:38: Then he becomes a CLOT; then (Allah) shaped and fashioned…   15. Boys for Sex in JunnaT :   Koran 52:24 Round about them will serve, to them, boys (handsome) as pearls well-guarded. Koran 56:17 Round about them will serve boys of perpetual freshness. Koran 76:19 And round about them will serve boys of perpetual freshness: if thou seest them, thou wouldst think them scattered pearls.   16. Voluptious Hoor:   Koran 78:31 As for the righteous, they shall surely triumph. Theirs shall be gardens and vineyards, and high-bosomed virgins for companions: a truly overflowing cup.   17. Sky and Earth are on stand-still because ... :   (40) Lo! Allah graspeth the heavens and the earth that they deviate not, and if they were to deviate there is not one that could grasp them after Him. Lo! He is ever Clement, Forgiving. Qoraan 35:41 Translation by PICKTHAL: Lo! Allah graspeth the heavens and the earth that they deviate not, and if they were to deviate there is not one that could grasp them after Him. Lo! He is ever Clement, Forgiving. Translation by M H Shakir: Surely Allah upholds the heavens and the earth lest they come to naught; and if they should come to naught, there Is none who can uphold them after Him; surely He is the Forbearing, the Forgiving. "Inal laha yamsikos SmaawaTe wal ArD inna Tazoolaa walain zalaTau ein amsaka homa min ahaDin mimbaaDehe innaho kaana haliman ghafooraa" You can see, Qoraan says, Allah is holding the heavens and earth. How the hell Earth can rotate? Translation of 'yamsiko' is 'holds with His hand' in Arabic. 'Masik' = Holding. 'Momsik' = 1. Someone or something that holds on to something. 2. In 'tib' of Indian Sub Continent it means a Medicine that holds ejaculation of a Patient that ejaculates too fast to sexually satisfy his wife. Further References: 1. "Earth is stand-still (Saakin)" - (Hzt. Ali, 'Jamay ol MoajzaaT' page 105). 2. "Earth and Sky are stand-still (Saakin)" - (Hzt. Abdullah bin Masood, Ibnay JareeD, Ibnay Katheer, Urdu Edition Book IV page 327-328).   18. Extort 'Protection Money' from weaker Non Moslim nations:   "9.29":    Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay Protection Money (Jiziyah) in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection. --------------- Comments on Protection Money (or Islamic 'daadaa geeri' Tax or 'Juggaa' Tax) by Turkman: You see, this is why Punjabi Police collects Protection Money from all businesses in Karachi including 'Thailay wala'. Too bad, all major Foreign Airlines pulled-out of Pakistan instead of keep paying Protection Money because still their offices were looted, their Air Hostesses raped and their Male Staff mistreated. It also proves, Pakistan had every right to blackmail USA after building Atomic Bomb to Extort Loans from her. Allaho Akbar ...!    --- On Tue, 9/9/08, mufassil islam <mufassili@hotmail.com> wrote: Mr. Turkman: I agree with your opinion about radicalism being spilled to a large extent but and I am alarmed by that development as well. But what I do not agree with is your subtle comments about Quranic verses being out of date when you failed to give examples when I had challenged you repeatedly on that issue. Irresponsible comments are not appreciated. Well before we talk about Islamic radicalism - you should also talk about Christian radicalism in the name of global peace. We have to find the root cause of the radical acts so that the radicals cannot have any more fuel to breed more radicals. Can we talk about that?   By the way - one of my Indian clients live on Turkman street in Delhi - anything to do with you?   Mufassil Islam To: alochona@yahoogroup s.com KRaisuddin wrote: Mr. Islam,   You are lauding Turkman with very objectionable languages. Do you think it is appropriate for you if you are a Human Right advocate? Whose right you are advocating? For general Bangladeshi public or for fanatic islamists? Do you know the difference between the general peaceful muslim public and religion hijacker fanatic islamists? Majority people of Bangladesh are muslim and are peace loving for last about 1000 years. The wahabis, muslim brotherhood, rich Saudis and other oil rich middle eastern amirs have started radicalism in islam. That pollution spilled from middle east to Pakistan and Afghanistan. They recruited quite a number of bangla speaking muslims too. After facing tough situations there, a lot of them are harboring shelters to Bangladesh. A lot of petrodollars are being spent for them by their recruiters. They are definite threat for Bangladesh. They talk about religion, like you do, but work as agents and trying to convert Bangladesh into dark age Khilafat. If you are unaware about this unfortunate situation, please try to find out. However, my request to you that if you want to remain as a human right advocate, you must see all human equally regardless of religion, orientation, culture, color, creed or national origin. If you take side with fanatic islamists, your human right logo will just be in vain.   Thanks, KR To: alochona@yahoogroup s.com From: mufassili@hotmail. com It seems Mr. Turkman strikes a zero again. I don't know what's wrong with this man!! He keeps on babbling in his confused state of mind and it seems he is the only one who is up and awake with all that rubbish peep holes that someone can see from fanatic burkhas (un-Islamic) towards open-brandishing sex-shops in Time Square , New York where I need to close my children's eyes. Yes, I agree to some extent to his views of secularism as to state and I agree that is the way a sate should behave. But I am not equally surprised again by his failed dilemma of distorted Islamic view. He belongs to those groups of people who think in Bangladesh there can be no religious Muslim who can hate Jamaat's stand during liberation war and I think he belongs to that invisible people who think Islamic Law means cutting off forehands for stealing when not a single man was subjected to that during the prophet (pbuh)'s time and don't know the reason why!! He talks about women beating. Well what does records say? Where do we see worst atrocities on women?? What does the Bible say when it depicts Eve to have had misled Adam and Quran does not recogise that and confirms that both Adam and Eve were misled together? Somalia or Afghnistan? Well shock for him NO - it is in Angola and USA where Muslims are minorities that women are worst treated. Shock again that by the time I am done with this letter - hundreds of women will be raped by hooligans in those countries as there is no Islamic law. There a fast car and a half naked woman on the bill board says together  - 'Take me for a Test Drive'. Some views may sound nice from afar as being humane but in reality they fail in practice. Want to talk about Human Rights? Well ask Mrr. McCaine under what law did he keep the Bangladeshi girl in violation of our national law about adoption. Dare ask him? Come on I am taunting you Mr. Turkman - the unseen! He took the girl for treatment from the Teresa Orphanage in the name of treatment and decided never to return and now look she stands as a publicity stunt. What steps did your future president take (as a I am sure blind many Americans will selfishly vote for this war-lover) to bridge Briggett with her origin. Well you may say it worked out for her and she is having a good life - I on the other hand have seen hundreds of these children returning to Bangaldesh - ### ed up in head as they cannot find their roots. Islam does not allow this type of adoption at all. Do you know that?? Well sorry I forgot you claim to be a too white (too white to be a Bangladeshi) and too anti-Islamic and too much pro-Western to recongise that.   At least I have a God who talks to me. Does your Bible talk to you apart from Holy Ghost inspiring even Christ to utter a few lines only in the whole Bible? Well Islam still allows you to roam in your ignorance and that is secularism.   Mufassil Islam To: alochona@yahoogroup s.com;  S Turkman wrote: Sir, You are confusing Secularism with Anti Islamism. Your own Moslim Brothers in Canada, USA and Western Europe love Secularism because all it means is that ...   *  State would not impose any religion on citizens, *  no laws would be made to please one religion or the other, *  all are free to practice, whichever religion they want, *  all have Freedom of Speech & Expression and Human Rights of all are protected.   Please explain, why what's good for your brothers abroad and has created a better society than ours is no good for your country?   Why should ...   *  Wife Beatings be allowed? *  Honor Killings, Female Killings, Female Infanticide, Female Fetal Abortions with the help of Ultra Sound Machine to learn the gender of Pregnancy ahead of time should be allowed? *  You people be allowed to bomb and kill each other or Non Moslims? *  You people should be allowed to impose ancient and in some cases out-dated and obsolete Islamic Shriyah on people without their approval? *  Borqah the Mini Tent be worn by our Women, when we see no practical need of it since we are no more like Bedouin Savages of 7th Century, who used to get turned-on looking at face of a female and used to start raping her?   If you have this problem, you should be sent to Mental Hospital. Why should all of us change just because of you are still a Savage Brain, sir? If you want to be treated by Shriyah Law Punishments, we would be glad to execute your beheading for rape and murder but you are dreaming that you would be able to impose your Savage Talibani System here. Wake up, this is 21st Century, not 7th ...! Clock moves forward, not backwards.     --- On Sun, 8/31/08, Mohammed Ramjan <mramjan@hotmail. com> wrote: Despite of the subject/points for and against M. Anis and Ms Farida Majid, I have the followings: There is no option for a true Muslim to be a secularist. Yeaa Kana budu – we only pray for you, Ibadat -which extend from personal life to statehood life. Leading a multicultural life does not mean that a Muslim have to be secular. Prophet Mohammed (sm) was not a secular, his shabi were not secular. Muslim Caliphates after prophet were not secular, how and from where some Muslims tend to be secular we do not understand. Western magnetic induced man and women can have such aqida which is far from Islam. Secularist people can do all kinds of heinous act not the Islamist. Hitler Mussolini all was secular.   At the end I would request all the forum members to use modern English not the Victorian from which the west has shifted a long ago.  Thanks Mohammed Ramjan Ali Bhuiyan Kuwait     To: alochona@yahoogroup s.com Farida Majid <farida_majid@ ...> wrote: Dear Anis saheb,           I will comply with your request to explain the Qura'anic verse.  Explicating the language of the Qur'an is always a pleasure, and in this case there could an additional reward of exposing the nature of falsehood, i.e., the basic premise of your mischievous piece. But I humbly refuse to engage in any "point by point" argument as per your invitation.         Wa la talbisoo alhaqqa bilbaTili wa taktumoo alhaqqa wa antum t'alamoona [2:42] And cover not Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when ye know (what it is).          The verb root 'labasa' or 'cover' gives rise to other words such as 'lebaas' meaning cloth or clothes. So, here, 't-albisoo alhaqqa' meaning 'covering or cloaking the truth' indicates a strong sense of intentionality.  In ...bil baTili ..., 'bi' is a frequently used preposition in Arabic most often translated in English as 'with'. The word 'baTil' can have many nuanced meanings such as 'falsehood', 'illegal' 'unjustified' 'harmful' etc.              The verse, therefore, is more than a simple interdiction against lying.  It captures the act of deceitful men succinctly and cautions against indulging in telling the worst kind lies  -- that which cleverly and intentionally conceals the truth in order to cause unjustified harm. Your article, along with some of the Jamaati-style propaganda, is the best example of what the Qur'an has explicitly forbidden us to do.         Your knowledge of Islam is indeed very poor otherwise you would not have used the word 'Islam' so indicriminately to describe such a variety of things ranging from dishonest political posturing,  political propaganda, misogynistic politics and even the Arabic language of the Qur'an.           To say that almost all Islam-'ponthi' people were against the independence of Bangladesh is one of the most insulting remarks to the sovreignty of Bangladesh,  to the general populace of this populous country, and it is surely one of the most sinful lies one can possibly utter! It is also an unforgivable insult to the religion of Islam in Bangladesh.            The truth is only a handful of crooks were involved in heinous activities during the 1971 War of Liberation intent on preventing the independence from Pakistan. And these crooks only pretended to be Pakistan's collaborators.  They were much worse than that, and unfortunately they are still with us. Any good Muslim, anywhere in the world, would hesitate to call them co-religionists.            Secularism, by the way, is a constitutional issue. It protects the rights of religions especially in a multicultural, multireligious country like Bangladesh.            Thanks.            Farida Majid   To: alochona@yahoogroup s.com From: dr_anisur_rahman@ yahoo.com Dear Ms. Farida Majid, It seems to me that your e-mail address has been hacked becuase it looks unusual to me that a secularist like you are quoting from from Quran. If it is not hacked, then the assumption I made in my article that influence of Islam is increasing amoung Bangladeshis is true. I do not know what the verse you mentioned means. My knowledge about Islam is almost nil. Please give us a translation of it. I will higly appreciate if you kindly let me know what are the falsehoods I am trying to spread in my article. It contains 11 points and if you identify the point(s) you have question about, then I will try to clarify my position. Regards. Anis --- In alochona@yahoogroup s.com, Farida Majid <farida_majid@ ...> wrote: > > > How Bangladesh should react to such wicked exercise in indecent exposure of lies? > We should remind ourselves of the Qur'anic caution: > > Wa la talbisoo al-Haqqa bi alBaTili wa taktumu al-Haqqa wa antum t'alamoona. > > --Sura Baqarah, verse 42 > > May Allah save us from such spread of falsehoods that this author is spreading. > > -- Farida Majid> > > Dear Alochoks, > > Like elsewhere in the world, the influence of religion is increasing in Bangladesh. You will hardly find any mosque in Dhaka in Friday which can provide space for all those who come to pray. The spread of Hijab is also noticeable. Religion based political parties are expanding their support base. It has posed a risk for the country because countries like India are trying to create a fundamentalist image of Bangladesh and using the rising Islam as a tool for that. What should we do in this situation? I tried to analyse it in my article published at: > > http://www.sonarban gladesh.com/ article.php? ID=235 > > Please share your views on this critical issue. > > Regards. > > Anis > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > Get thousands of games on your PC, your mobile phone, and the web with Windows®. > http://clk.atdmt. com/MRT/go/ 108588800/ direct/01/   Get more out of the Web. Learn 10 hidden secrets of Windows Live. Learn Now

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