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Wednesday, September 10, 2008

Re: [ALOCHONA] Re: Pakistan Army (Pvt) Ltd. - Businessmen at their Best

Dear Mr. Shafiq
 
Again, look at your post and see once again, who is liar and illiterate.
 
Thanks you confessed, at last, that there were 12,000 civilians too. Perhaps, you would like to justify yours, infect Indian, move of making the civilians the POWs.
 
And also you accepted that there were 90,000 not 93,000 POWs in total, out of which 12,000 were civilians. May be, you would also like to tell us whether it is justifiable to declare civilians and police like people as POWs?
 
Thirdly, you should be ashamed of yourself that, at last, you used Pakistan made report as the evidence of your sayings. Can't you give us some Bangladesh's own finding about how many civilians, policemen etc and regular military officers were taken as POWs?
 
The stamp and the Report made by Pakistani government, not by Bangladeshi government, indicate that there were 90,000 POWs in total. It did not said that all those 90,000 were Army men. What you say?
 
And by the way, your liberation war was totally hijacked by the Indians. Did you read the article posted by Isha Khan just today? The proof is that you had no control either on POWs or on your own country, until or unless Indian forces did not went off your country. Your own analyst are saying that Indians looted Hundreds of billions of dollars from your country, during liberation war. They took POWs with them as well as your military hardware, your wealth, jute, factory machines and what not. Even they did not spare your capital, Dhaka and looted homes and every single shop. Did Pakistan looted you more than your Indian friends? Who installed world's largest Jute mill and in which country? Would you like to tell us that too?
 
The reality is that there were only 54,000 regular army, taken as POW. While one of you claimed that you had killed around 33,000 army men during liberation war. You simply cannot count civilians, police etc as POW as they are not directly engaged in war. Police is simply to maintain law & order, while civilians are 300% not POWs. The number 65,000 is the total of whole armed forces plus other forces like retired or semi armed/volunteers etc etc. OR if you have any other break-up or any other finding out of Hamood ur Rahman Report, tell us too.
 
The rest were not eligible to qualify as POW but your X Friend forcefully given them the status of POW, which made the total number of 90,300. The stamp you are talking about did not indicated that 90,000 were army men. It was telling the total of 90,000. Tell me if I am lying again. Or confess that you tried to lie by misinterprating it.
 
Joy Bangla & Joy Bangali nation.
 
Do not try to spread hate with your stupidities.
 
Saj
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 5:53 PM
Subject: Re: [ALOCHONA] Re: Pakistan Army (Pvt) Ltd. - Businessmen at their Best

 
Hi Paki Sajjad
 
Through your illogical, nonsense reply with incorrect information and facts, you have again proved & established that you ares a notorious liar as well as an illiterate!

 

There are hundreds of books, magazines, newspaper, references on "unconditional surrender" of about 93,000 numbers of Pakistani on 16th December 1971 on the soil of Bangladesh, on the different web;

 
It was the first open surrender of a regular army and the second largest after World War II.

 

Brave freedom Fihgter Air Vice Marshals A.K. Khondoker, deputy chief of the Bangladesh liberation forces during the 1971 war (he was then made Air Chief of Bangladesh), represented the Mukhti Bahini at the surrender ceremony at the Race Course (now Suhrawardi Uddyan) on the 16th Decemebr 1971, as Coln Osamni, Chief of the Bangladesh liberation forces during the 1971, was not readily avalble and helicopter carrying him was shot & ambushed by Paki Army

 

The total number of uniformed personnel were about 80,000 (consist of Army & paramilitary, police) and about 12,000 were civilian. About 800 PAF and 1000 Pakistani Navy personnel also surrenderd. (Ref: The The Hamood-ur-Rahman Commission Report [1971] instituted by Pakistan Govt)

 

  

Even a Pakistani stamp was made by its Govt depicting the 90,000 POWs in Indian camps.
 
This stamp was issued with the political aim of raising global awareness of the POW issue to help secure their release.
 
(PDF file is Attached)

 

Pakistan based author Tariq Ali writes, "Pakistan lost half its navy, a quarter of its airforce and a third of its army."

 

Still you Paki, we call you NaPaki (polluted, contaminated) liar denies and insists 65,000 number Paki troops (toatal) were in Bangladesh (the then East Pakistan), then:

 

Why your NaPaki Govt stamp shows 90,000 POW

 
What a open lie!
 
 

Now if you liar denies, then what can we do?

 

So, not Mr. Musa, you should stop your lies and bullshits.

 
Any logical and rational person should not waste their time and merit by responding such garbage of a proven & traditional liar!

 

So, leave that proven & traditional liar. Unfortunately most of the NaPaki are same; and concentrate on other truth and facts!
 

Joy Bangla

 

 

(Your paki troops and supporters used to afraid this slogan more than any thing during 1971 war!)

 
Shafiqur Rahman Bhuiyan (ANU)
NEW ZEALAND.

Phone: 00-64-9-828 2435 (Res), 00-64-0274  500 277 (mobile)
E-mail: srbanunz@gmail.com

N.B.: If any one is offended by content of this e-mail, please ignore & delete this e-mail. I also request you to inform me by an e- mail - to delete your name from my contact list.

 



On 9/10/08, Saj <sajjad_pak@hotmail.com> wrote:
Dear Mr. Shafiq
 
The fact is that not me but you are either a liar or completely illiterate. Total military in East Pakistan was not more than 65,000. The rest were civilians. Which include employees of government, PIA, shipping company etc, banks and other government and semi government institutions, including those who went to East Pakistan from West Pakistan to perform their duties assigned either by government of Pakistan or private organisations and businesses.
 
Only military surrendered. There is no concept of civilian surrender. The rest were simply arrested by the Guerilla/mukti bahini and Indian Army. And they succesfully presented them too as POWs. Or may be you would like to give us some evidence, in the shape of any kind of government report or judicial inquiry etc that all of those 93,000 were military, which surrendered.
 
Secondly, there was no concept of Bangladesh-India Joint Command. You must remember that Indian Army did not invaded East Pakistan on request of Bangladeshi government. Additionaly, at the time of surrender dead, only Indian Commander was present. There was no so called Guirilla/Mukti Bahini commandar.
 
Thirdly, out of those 65,000. Many were bangali officers, who changed their loyality to Mukti Bahini/India. You must have seen the movies powered by Indian and american media of many of these officers, telling their stories of why they changed their loyality during liberation war, while they were still wearing Pakistani uniform, even after months of Liberation War. So this figure needs to declined further.
 
Fourthly, the rest of the military (Armed forces minus those bangalis who changed their loyality) were responsible to maintain law and order at all cost in the country. On the second front, they had to have a full fledge war with more than 1,00,000 Mukti Bahini guerilla fighters and when an appropriate environment developed for the Indians to invade East Pakistan. The third front opened for this small and un-efficient military. And this way, on the third end, they also had to fight with regular Indian Army. With limited arms and broken supply line, it is always impossible to carry on the war. So they surrendered. Just imagine what will be happening to Nato forces in Afghanistan if Pakistan cut their supply line. As their main and only supply line goes through Pakistan. This was what India did back in 1971.
 

Do you know how many thousand Paki troops (starting from Colonel to ordinary SEPAI) were killed by our brave MUKTI BAHINI?

 
Do you have any figure of that? Please put it up.
 
If Pakistani troops knows, how to kill the civilians. Then what about your own Bangladeshi Army, which is also found in killing the civilians and raping the women? And what about the Indian miltary? What they doing in Kashmir? Helping them to give birth more and more babies by raping their women? What americans are doing in Afghanistan and Iraq and what they did elsewhere in the world? No ordinary balochi had ever been targeted by Pakistan Army. If you exclude Bangladeshi/Indian claims of raping Bangalies in 1971, then you will simply not able to produce a single incident where Pakistan army raped any women. Remember that. Additionally, killing civilians is also not likely in Pakistan Army. We found only one incident where one Major was found in killing couple of people. He had been hanged up. How many Bangali soldiers had been hanged up so far for killing innocent civilians inside Bangladesh? How many indian soldiers were hanged up so far for killing civilians? How many american soldiers had been given the said treatment, so far, for killing civilians.
 
Some 60,000 Mukti Bahini were trained by the India forces inside India and entered them in East Pakistan. Hindu lobby was very strong and effective during that time. Even now and you know that. Sqrd. lead MM Alam had gunned down 5 indian jet fighters out of which 3 were in just less than a minute.
 
Flight Lieutenant Saiful Azam has the unique distinction of having kills against air forces of two different countries. As a young Flying Officer during the 65 War, Saiful Azam scored a kill against an Indian Air Force Gnat, in recognition of which he was awarded Sitara-i-Jurat. Two years later Saiful Azam became the first Pakistani pilot to score against the Israeli Air Force in the 1967 Arab-Israel war. He shot down a Vatour Bomber, a super Mystere, and a Mirage IIIC, all in only two missions thus raising his tally to four kills. To-date he remains the highest shooter of Israeli aircraft.
He has been highly decorated with gallantry awards by both Jordan and Iraq for his extraordinary display of skill and courage. He retired as a Group Captain from Bangladesh Air Force. In 2001, he was honoured by the United States Air Force (USAF) and enjoys the status of being one of the twenty two 'Living Eagles' of the world
 
 
Perhaps, you would like to equal any of these examples with your kills against Indian or any other air force. Or any ground battle, you would like to describe here?
 
See more
 
INDIAN MIG.21.27&MIL MI-17 SHOT DOWN BY PAKISTAN ARMY
 
Pakistan Police vs Indian Police
 
Pakistan vs India (www.thepakvision.com)
 
Indian Prime Minister Get Beaten Up By Sri lankan Soldier
 
Enjoy the videos
 
As far as development is concern. It is well known to every one that Pakistan was never available sufficient resources to fund the projects in both parts. At the time of partition, most of the businesses and key positions were held by Hindus, by the way and not by bangalis. You must remember this. Which clearly means that Bangalis were intentionaly forced out of the main stream during British rule, not during Pakistan's rule. The result was that when Hindu left for India. no sufficient man power was available, not only in East Pakistan but also in west Pakistan. Pakistan, in its early days, were spending its days and nights on donation money. Thanks to few rich people of Pakistan, which include Mr. Habib who donated 80 million dollars to Governer General Quaid e Azam MA Jinnah. Also, Adamjee group from West Pakistan established world's largest Jute factory in East Pakistan, not in West Pakistan. By the way, if they want to, they could always establish this factory in west and bring raw material from east. Bangalis were tend to do lot of agitations during jobs. This is well known by everybody. Even now, after seperation, you may like to make the statistics of protests and agitation of two countries, and would like to tell us which country out of these two spend more time in agitation in past 30 years.
 
As far as small military presence is concern. It was mainly due to lack of resources. The inside and outside donation were simply not enough to build a large army against a worst enemy in no time. Military leadership opted in to defend east from western borders. This doctrine was not bad at all. If ever India try to invade East Pakistan, we can always attack from west and could easily force it divert its forces on this side. If you see the heavy military presence of Indian forces in Kashmir, you will be convinced that this doctrine was not bad. However, Mukti Bahani, India prepared infiltrators, screwd up the whole defence plan and provided India a golder oppertunity for invasion. Should this Mukti thing never happened, India would never came into position to seperate two wings of the country.
 
But the above explanation is for intelligent people only, not for bashers like you. Who do not accept logic and made bashing the purpose of their lives. A doctor can treat the ill but he can not treat the dead.
 
The following article is not bad at all. Intelligent people should read it. You can also read it, anyway.
 
There was simply no proper ammunition supply, because the actual route available to us from inside India. And no enemy will allow you to supply arms and ammunition to your forces to use against it. The other route was long one, from Srilanka, which was simply not efficient enough.
 
OK. Most of the paki people rulers and generals are liar killer etc. Do you want me to respond to you in the same way? Unfortunatly, I can't do that. Because I have to maintain a difference between you and me. I just experienced one non-Paki's behaviour and what you experienced from me a Paki person? See the difference, gentleman.
 
No, they were not afraid with any kind of Political slogan. Infect, they were traped between the enemy lines, thanks to Mukti Bahani guerillas, which had been trained by India and those who changed their loyalities.
----- Original Message -----
To: alochona@yahoogroups.com ; Pakistan Zindabad ; Pakistan Post ; Pakistan Front ; Pak India Panel ; Pak Hope ; SAJJAD_PAK@hotmail.com ; m_musa92870@yahoo.com ; BanglaPolitics@yahoogroupscom ; banglarnari@yahoogroups.com ; bdstudents@yahoogroups.com ; bristi_namai@yahoogroups.com ; chottala@yahoogroups.com ; dahuk@yahoogroups.com ; Diagnose@yahoogroups.com ; FutureOfBangladesh@yahoogroups.com ; khabor@yahoogroups.com ; motamoth@yahoo.com ; mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com ; sa7rong@yahoogroups.com ; uttorshuri@yahoogroups.com ; gopalsengupta@aol.com ; turkman@sbcglobal.net ; Syed.Aslam3@gmail.com ; srbanunz@gmail.com ; abuilla@yahoo.com ; ahamed.ahmed@gmail.com ; rgonsalves29@verizon.net ; veirsmill@yahoo.com ; Santa.mustafa@hotmail.com ; mita_hq@yahoo.com ; farid300@gmail.com ; nondinihussain@gmail.com ; Arahim.azad@gmail.com ; poplu@hotmail.com ; aamra_korbo_joy@yahoo.com ; hasan.mahmud@hotmail.com ; think_tank_habib@yahoo.com ; emdad555@yahoo.com ; biren77@yahoo.com ; anjbose@hotmail.com ; babu_asad@yahoo.com ; islam71nurul@aol.com ; citizen.bangladesh@gmail.com ; keya1ind@gmail.com ; fiz_josef@yahoo.com.au ; sharifh_bd@yahoo.com ; Milton.Hasnat@newcastle.edu.au ; mostofa@acebd.com ; boseasoke@gmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: [ALOCHONA] Re: Pakistan Army (Pvt) Ltd. - Businessmen at their Best

 

Mr. Sajjad, either you are a notorious liar or complete illiterate!

 

You wrote,

"In 1971, Pakistan had only less than 65,000 troops in East Pakistan".

 

This is a broad day lie.

 

In 16th December, 1971 around 93,000 Paki troops had surrendered to Bangladesh - India joint command unconditionally and cowardly!

 

(Still this is a world record)

 

If there were only 65,000 troops then how 93,000 Paki troops surrendered?
 

Do you know how many thousand Paki troops (starting from Colonel to ordinary SEPAI) were killed by our brave MUKTI BAHINI?

 

Yes, I agree Paki troops are expert in killing unarmed - innocent civilian, like they killed innocent & unarmed Bangalee in Bangladesh, Balooch in Baluchistan, Pathan in NWFP!

 

They are 'rat' against any regular army, even to Bangalee MUKTI BAHINI (90% of them were young man having only 4 to 8 weeks light and nominal training) no previous military training or experience

 

In other place you wrote,

"Where small Pakistani army was already engaged with limited amunation. Without Air and Naval support and without amunation supply line"

 

Why?

 

Bangladesh was mostly populated part (54% of total) of the then total Pakistan and most of the foreign exchanged were earned from the product of Bangladesh (Jute etc) and most of the meritorious and intelligent people of Pakistan were from Bangladesh part and we were superior to you in all good aspect!

 

Then why there was "small army"?

 

Then why there was no "Air and Naval support"?

 

Then why there was no proper "ammunition supply"?

 

Because most of the Paki people, ruler, and military are:

 

  • Liar
  • Killer
  • Rapist
  • Cheat
  • Immoral
  • Exploiter
  • Conspirator

That is why we defeated you!

 

We broke your Pakistan into pieces!

 

We are now much better off than you and we are going forward (may be at less pace), but not going backward like you!

 

So, leave us and do not intermingle with Bangladesh and Bangalee

and

Oil your own old and ruined machine

 

Joy Bangla

 

(Your paki troops and supporters used to afraid this slogan more than any thing during 1971 war!)

 
 

Shafiqur Rahman Bhuiyan (ANU)
NEW ZEALAND.

Phone: 00-64-9-828 2435 (Res), 00-64-0274  500 277 (mobile)
E-mail: srbanunz@gmail.com

N.B.: If any one is offended by content of this e-mail, please ignore & delete this e-mail. I also request you to inform me by an e- mail - to delete your name from my contact list.

 


On 9/9/08, Saj <SAJJAD_PAK@hotmail.com> wrote:

Mr. Musa
 
Be honest and read your post and then tell us who is taking drugs?
 
Well, I can still go on with you. But you promise with me that you will not runaway this time too. As you once did in the past.
 
In 1971, Pakistan had only less than 65,000 troops in East Pakistan. This small army need to fight on multiple ends at the same time. It had maintain peace and law & order at any cost within the country. Then it had to take down the armed personal, prepared by India and thirdly and most importantly it had to handle the regular army of India. For your bad information, Mr. Musa, Guerilla war is totally different than the regular war. Only a regular armies capture enemies' territories. Guerilla warriors only hit and run. Pakistan army did not lost in front of so called guerillas, anyway. It was full fledge Indian invasion of East Pakistan, where they crossed the international borders, entered in Pakistan's territories and made their advancements towards the capital. Where small Pakistani army was already engaged with limited amunation. Without Air and Naval support and without amunation supply line, it is always impossible to carry on war at multiple ends, at the same time. Technically, it could be the mis-management of Pakistan of its military presence in East Pakistan. But it could never be claimed as military victory either by India or Bangladesh.
 
As far as Kargil is concern, It could only be a fool's view point, that Pakistan Army lost in Kargil. Forget all other things and tell us that when Kargil war started, how many war tax Pakistan had imposed on Pakistani nation and how much war tax imposed by Indian government on indians? IF YOU BELIEVE THAT YOU ARE SO RIGHT, THAN DO NOT TRY TO RUN AWAY FROM THIS SINGLE QUESTION.
 
Go and read newspapers of the days of Kargil war and list the number of casualities on both sides and let us know. Additionally, and again for your bad information, Mr. Musa, India lost many fighter jets in Kargil, while Pakistan Air Force was totally out of this war, not a single flight by Pakistan Air Force. What you say on this.
 
It will always remain funny to you. Whenever will show you the truth you will always say this. Don't worry.
 
 It is not necessary that Pakistanis and Russians engage in actual and face to face war to determine which military is superior. I think you are taking the example of China-India war in mind, where Chinese military beated like a dog to the Indians. Am I right? In Afghanistan, Pakistan was fighting the war of its own survival. The leadership of that time clearly looking USSR as taking over Pakistan too. If they had allowed to consolidate thier military presence in Afghanista. So Pakistan decided not to allow them to consolidate in Afghanistan. The whole Guerilla war was planned and carried on by Pakistani Intelligence Agencies and mainly under the command of General Akhtar Abdur Rahman. Search his name in the google and find out by yourself. This is not necessary that I waste my time to educate the hate monger like you.
 
And your great last para. Need proof? OK. here it is. Read the following links and tell us that are these not solid enough for you  to believe? Or I need to send Pakistan's Army Chief at your homes with all CDs of Pakistani movies to show you that Pakistan, unlike Indians, had never ever felt a need to make movies like them to get more recruites.
 
Yom Kippur War
Main article: Yom Kippur War

During the war 16 PAF pilots volunteered to go to the Middle East in order to support Egypt and Syria but by the time they arrived, Egypt had already been pushed into a ceasefire. Syria remained in a state of war against Israel. Eight (8) PAF pilots started flying out of Syrian Airbases; they formed the A-flight of 67 Squadron at Dumayr Airbase. The Pakistani pilots flew Syrian Mig-21 aircraft conducting CAP missions for the Syrians. Flt. Lt. A. Sattar Alvi became the first Pakistani pilot, during the Yom Kippur War, to shoot down an Israeli Mirage in air combat[7][8]. He was honored by the Syrian government[9]. Other aerial encounters involved Israeli F4 Phantoms; Pakistan Air Force did not lose a single pilot or aircraft during this war. The Pakistani pilots stayed on in Syria until 1976, training Syrian pilots in the art of air warfare

 
 
And oh, you asked about direct military combat between Pakistan's and Russians forces. See the following
 
 
Date Pilot Name & AF Unit Aircraft Flown
Base		 Kills
Aircraft/Pilot		 Comments
17 May 1986 Sqn. Ldr. A. Hameed Qadri
No. 9 Squadron, PAF		 F-16A Fighting Falcon
(S. No. 82-723)
PAF Sargodha		 2 Soviet/Afghan Su-22s Shot down both Su-22s in a single sortie 16,000 ft. over Parachinar, Pakistan. 1 AIM-9L Sidewinder Kill, 1 Gun Kill.
30 March 1987 Wng. Cdr. Abdul Razzaq
No. 9 Squadron, PAF		 F-16A Fighting Falcon
PAF Sargodha		 1 Soviet/Afghan An-26 Shot down near Miranshah, Pakistan while on a recce mission.
16 April 1987 Sqn. Ldr. Badar Islam
No. 14 Squadron, PAF		 F-16A Fighting Falcon
PAF Minhas (Kamra)		 1 Soviet/Afghan Su-22 Shot down after strafing Pakistani villages near Tull, Pakistan along with another Su-22 and with a pair of MiG-23MLDs flying top cover. Remaining 3 aircraft bugged out.
8 April 1988 Sqn. Ldr. Athar Bokhari
No. 14 Squadron, PAF		 F-16A Fighting Falcon
(S. No. 85-725)
PAF Minhas (Kamra)		 1 Soviet Su-25
Col. Ruskoi Alexander Valadimirovich, Soviet Air Force (ejected)		 1 PAF F-16 Vs. 4 Soviet Su-25s. Night interception over Parachinar, Pakistan. AIM-9L Sidewinder Kill. Remaining 3 Su-25s bugged out. Soviet Su-25 pilot, Col. Ruskoi Alexander Valadimirovich, (later Vice-President of Russia) was taken prisoner by Pakistani authorities.
12 September 1988 Flt. Lt. Khalid Mahmood
No. 14 Squadron, PAF		 F-16A Fighting Falcon
(S. No. 85-728) PAF Minhas (Kamra)		 2 Soviet MiG-23MLDs 2 PAF F-16s Vs. 6 Soviet MiG-23s. Near Nawagai border area with Pakistan. Both Kills in a single sortie with AIM-9L and AIM-9P Sidewinders.
3 November 1988 Flt. Lt. Khalid Mahmood
No. 14 Squadron, PAF		 F-16A Fighting Falcon
(S. No. 84-717)
PAF Minhas (Kamra)		 1 Afghan Air Force Su-22
Capt. Hashim, AAF (ejected)		 2 PAF F-16s Vs. 6 Soviet/Afghan Su-22s. (3 on ground attack and 3 flying top cover) near Tull, Pakistan. Kill made with 2 AIM-9L Sidewinders. Afghan pilot, Capt. Hashim, was captured after bailing out.
20/21 November 1988 (Rank?) Muhammad Abbas Khattak
No. 14 Squadron, PAF		 F-16A Fighting Falcon
PAF Minhas (Kamra)		 1 Soviet An-26 Shot down while on a recce mission inside Pakistan. PAF pilot later Chief of the Air Staff, PAF, 1994-1997.
31 January 1989 Flt. Lt. Khalid Mahmood
No. 14 Squadron, PAF		 F-16B Fighting Falcon
PAF Minhas (Kamra)		 1 Soviet An-24 Night interception near Bannu, Pakistan while on a solo 'hot scramble'. An-24 on bombing run crashed while attempting to surrender. Thus credited as 'manoeuvre kill'.
Total: 10 Air-to-Air Kills NOTE: This table does not include all the PAF Kill figures for the 1979-1988 Soviet-Afghan War which remain classified with the PAF.
 
You are so much interested to known the SOLID EVIDENCE. Is this evidence is not solid enough for your ill mind to believe on what I am saying?
 
If you need more proof and evidences, then please search it by yourself. Do not waste other's time for your own sake.
 
May Allah save all of us from lies and hypocrisies in this blessed month of Ramzan.
 
Saj
 
----- Original Message -----
From: musasarkar
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 8:21 PM
Subject: [ALOCHONA] Re: Pakistan Army (Pvt) Ltd. - Businessmen at their Best

 


Mr. Saj,

You are either seriously funny or serious mental case. Or should I say
what kind of drugs you are taking these days? Compare our military with
yours? How about losing the war in 1971 in just nine months against a
mostly guerilla force? Want to give the credit to Indian army? That
will only prove their army is better than yours. You lose either way.
The Pak army, the all powerful and strongest army in the world,
surrendered to Indian army in two weeks. Still can't forget the pain of
losing Kargil war? Can you tell us in how many days Indian army wiped
you out? How many of their soldiers were killed and how many Pakis?
Remember it was your army who started Kargil war. It's funny when I see
a lot of Pakistanis who never concede defeat and who are always in a
state of denial. Even when they are losing big time, they think they
are actually winning big time.

You wrote, "Russia knows what Pakistani Military had done to them in
Afghanistan." Tell us when and where the Pak army fought the Russian
army in Afghanistan. Or do you think the Afghan Mujahedeen's were
actually members of Pak army?

You wrote, "Pakistan's pilots fought against Israelis and took many of
their planes down. " Can you write down when and where? And how many
Israeli planes they took down? Did you watch it in a Pakistani movie?
Give us solid evidence. Also write down how many times Indian army
staged coups against their elected government and how many times the
Paki army did.

May Allah save all of us from lies and hypocrisies this blessed month of
Ramadhan.

Mohammd Musa Sarkar

--- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, "Saj" <SAJJAD_PAK@...> wrote:
>
> Mr. M.
>
> If you want to, you can always compare with the military of your own
country and tell me if this statement is not correct.
>
> And which other country, you want to compare with. There are only few
countries in the world, whose military had most recent practical war
experience. Do Bangladesh has this experience at the moment? Vietnam,
Nepal, Saudees etc etc. The only important countries are Pakistan, USA,
UK, China, Russia, Israel, India, Iran and there are very few others.
Russia knows what Pakistani Military had done to them in Afghanistan.
India kept 1 million army at the border for one year and despite its
wish to attack on Pakistan, it was simply unable to do that. In Kargil,
Pakistan Army, alone, fought war with its pocket money. While India
imposed war tax on the whole nation and kept recieving this tax for
years after end of Kargil war. Morover, USA, UK etc can't survive for a
single day, without military support from Pakistan's military
insitutions. China and Pakistan held joint exercises and found good
performances from both sides. Pakistan is the world's only Muslim
country with nuclear bombs, nuclear missles and has the capabilities to
target any part of Israeli military. Pakistan's pilots fought against
Israelis and took many of their planes down. Whatelse would be the
paramatre for you. Will you please write it down and we can work on
that????? Which country you want to compare Pakistan's military. write
it down.
>
> It is not only you. But there is not deficiency of the people like you
in the world. Whose source of information is west or Indian based and
keep doing analysis paralysis according to the information provided by
them. Your believe is not worth quarter a cent. Only the time will tell
you what will be the reaction.
>
> Indian army wants to serve the nation??? part of the nation lives in
Kashmir. where more than half of the bloody indian army is serving the
naiton day and night by killing the innocent, raping the women, blocking
the roads. Facilitatings hindu badmaash and grabing muslim lands.
another part of Indian nation is waiting to be served by Indian army in
Gujrat, while one other part of Indian naiton was treated well when
Indra gandhi bombed thier temples. few other parts of Indian nation do
not want Indian army to serve them and want them to leave their
territory. One part of Indian naition in Goa demanding rest of the
indians, along with regular indian army to get off their lands. Many
other examples of Indian army treatment for their nation. Want to listen
more? make the request.
>
> Military's involvment in politics was merely political. It has no
significant impact of military rule in the country over people. that is
why, people still love Pakistan's military and, unlike, indian
miliatary, Pakistanees feel proud to become a member of this military.
This era of military rule, that era of military rule. This is not your
problem, as non-Pakistani. However, you will be interested to know that
what are the after effects of military rule in Pakistan? Pakistan
produces 70 thousands barrels oil. 90% of this produced in military
rule. Pakistan's industrial infrastruction is still the same, which Ayub
Khan had made. Pakistan's military power enhanced in Zia's regime. Only
the last military ruler, musharraf messed up every thing. However, under
his rule we saw first assembly, which completed five years. highest
foreign reserves etc etc. This is what you would like to know. this era,
that era is not your problem. Or perhaps, you would like to tell us
about era like things in Indian military, which made it so proudable
amongs Indian Nation that non of the want to become a part of it.
>
> What Indian military serving to the nation. Perhaps, you would like to
tell us. What Indian Army is so unpopular amongs their own nation? Why
there are so many empty offices in Indian Army? Please tell us a little
about that. Instead of telling the different era of Pakistan Army.
>
>
> What happened in congo or some other african country where Indian army
found in some sex or gold scandal. Will you please put some light on
that? And also tell us why Indian government bought boxes for their dead
bodies in Kargil? Can Rising India is rising from that much depth, where
it can't menufacture few boxes for the dead bodies of their soldiers?
How much commision paid for thses boxes? Does wikipedia provide some
information about that too??? And bofors scandal???? what about that?
And this is not it. What Indian government banned tehalka .com website
or their offices, whatever? Will you please dare to tell us atleast one
single case whcih CBI had successfully investigated and resolved and the
culprits had already produced in the court of law and punished???? Or
everything is political..
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: M.
> To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 10:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [ALOCHONA] Pakistan Army (Pvt) Ltd. - Businessmen at
their Best
>
>
>
>
> Mr. Saj,
> You said <Pakistan's Military is one of the world's largest, strongest
and dangarous militaries in the world> with whom you compare this power?
Telling such thing is so easy. If real battle comes I am cent percent
sure that this army cannot withstand a month.
> It is true that peoples are interested to join Pakistan Army more than
Indian Army.
> The reason behind that Pak Army gets more facility than Indian Army.
> See the history Pak army always in the government, they make cue again
and again and hold the power and betry the people. But in India there
are no military cues. (You will get information about that if you search
wikipedia?).
>
> Pakistan army is always greedy for power but Indian army wants to
serve the nation.
>
> see pakistan's history
>
> a.. 7 First military era (1958-1971)
> b.. 8 Second democratic era (1971-1977)
> c.. 9 Second military era (1977-1988)
> d.. 10 Third democratic era (1988-1999)
> e.. 11 Third military era (1999 - 2007)
> only democratic era is 1988 to 1999.
> If you say this army is good. It is really ridiculus.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 2008/8/31 Saj SAJJAD_PAK@...
>
> 

> Asalam Alaikum
>
> Mr. Robin, why you said "Could it be? Just Kidding"
>
> Pakistan's Military is one of the world's largest, strongest and
dangarous militaries in the world. It's role in Jihad e Afghanistan
could never be forgotten. Similarly, the way it had handled the
situation in Balochistan and in North is IDEAL for the so called western
and American military. They can only dream for such a performaces from
their own militaries. Unlike them, people out of Pakistan love to and
feel proud to become a member of this brave military. Unlike India,
where Indian Army is facing lack of officers in their military and
recruite almost every single candidate. Pakistan Army had REJECT more
than HALF of the applicants in recruiting process. India made lot of
movies to promote military in the peaple and to encourage them to become
a military officers. Still not able to fill the empty vacancies in
Indian military. But, on the other hand. The last TV drama, I
remmembered is made atleast 10 years before, with the co-operation of
ISPR (Inter Services Public Relations). Similarly, you will never see
recruitement advertisement, though small advertisement do given in
newspaper and sometimes in TV, to let people know at what date, the
recruitement will start in which area. Similarly, you will see lot of
pictures, where poor tribesmen of Balochistan and North will be standing
in long ques, waiting for thier number to give interview to become part
of the army. Hundreds of examples, like these could be given to you,
while such things would not exists in India, American, Israel etc etc.
>
>
> Pakistani military, especially army is running a big welfare
organisation, named Army Welfare Trust (AWT), which is responsible to
run the welfare project of onduty, retired and died military officers.
Hundreds of the projects completed and hundreds are in pipeline.
Billions of Dollars needed for these projects. Govertment is simply
unable to fulfil the heavy cost of these projects. Army seted up its own
income resources to fund these welfare projects. This was the basic
idea, which forced military to start profitable projects and to arrange
sufficient resources for welfare projects.
>
> Before I give you point to point response for the article like
material you wrote or copied from somewhere else. Let me try to help you
to understand, who these business projects are helping Pakistan to gain
control of national wealth.
>
> In Pakistan, there are two kinds of banks. Local Banks and Foreign
banks. Local banks had thousands of branches, so have hundreds of
thousands of employees. While foreign banks had only hundreds of
branches and so thousands of employees. The comparison of local and
foreign bank branches is 10 to 1. Which means that where local banks had
10 branches, foreign banks had only 1 branch. While, on the other hand,
foreign banks had more deposits than local banks. Here, the ratio is
40:60. Which means that where local banks had 40% of total deposits with
10 branches, foreign banks had 60% deposits with only 1 branch. Now,
let's assume that Askari Commercial bank has One billion Rupees deposits
with 1000 employees and 10 branches. And then let's further assume that
Askari Commercial bank close down. Now, what will happen. 40% of
Askari's deposits will go to local banks (Infect, only 10%, as they are
good compatitors of foreign banks) and 60% will go to foreign banks.
while, atleast 8 branches will close down and almost 80 % people will
loose their jobs. So they doing good job by stoping good amount of money
from going to foreign banks. What you say?
>
> Real Estate.
>
> Defence Housing Authority (DHA) develop lands, through out the
country. and distribute plots ot onduty and retired officers and widows
of dead military personals. Such distribution is on very very cheap
price. Additionally, as they directly belong to the military, so
automatically considered as estate organisation. So people get trust on
them. As people are routinly and repeatedly looted by land mafias in
Pakistan. I, by myself, bought plots in two well reputed societies.
Years gone and still looking for development. But now, I see no recovery
from therm. While I bought plot in DHA, when I was outside the country.
Blind trust, isn't it? I visited my newly bought 2 Million (later 5
million) plot after 7 months of its purchase. Another fascinating thing.
What you say?
>
> This is not it. In Kalar Kahar, which is 170 kilometre far from
Islamabad. People were used to give their homes FREE on rent. With the
aim that the tenant will atleast take care of their home and nobody will
stole the bricks. Now, the rent of such homes is aroudn 50 thousands per
month. Because, there were news that military is going to make it
another Cantt. Whereever, military develop a cantt or land. The
economics of the areas change in days. They build roads, Hospitals,
schools etc etc.
>
> Industrial
>
> Fauji Cement and many other industries are paying billions of rupees
as tax. provding employeement to thousands of people. Meeting the needs
of demands of the country. Supplying quality products and thus making
the dream of self reliance, true. Military orgs never found in Cement
Scandal and Sugar Sandals. This is something new about our military,
which you told us. Perhaps, you would like to tell us what happened
during Kargil war. When they bought boxes from other countries. Was
India, with a billion population and billions of foreign reserves was
unable to manufacture boxes withing country?
>
> Bankings
>
> It is covered in the first few paragraphs.
>
> Construction
>
> Frontier Works Organisation is not a business institute. Perhaps, you
need to correct your knowledge. Norther bypass project is the only
project which faced failure. The government had conducted the
investigation and pointed out the culprits. The collapse of the small
project of norther baypass could not be considered as a failure of the
FWO, which engaged in construction of Karrakarum Highway, one of the
world's most dangarous highways. Where number of military personels had
sacrificed their lives. Coastal highway was not flushed out because it
was sub standards. But because of the high volume of flood water.
Government builds thousands of kilometre long roads every year. Many of
those flushed out, just becuase of floods and other national disasters.
A person with little mind can easily understand that human mind can not
fight with national disasters such as floods, earthquack etc.FWO is one
of the most important organisation for Pakistan and made smooth military
movement through out the country, possible. The infrastructure it
developed in the country is playing a vital role in the development of
the country.
>
> Agriculture & Livestock/Diary
>
> Military had never grabed the lands. Only a fool, like you can think
like this. Military does not have to do it. Secondly, Military is not a
major stake holder of agriculture lands in Pakistan. Few small diary
setup are purely for military's own use. They don't even own a milk
processing plant. They obtain lands from government. Then they give this
land to farmers on lease, such as in Okara, 360 kilometre away from
Islamabad. They buy their products right from their fields. Unlike,
other poor land owners, who are used to travel to islamabad to sell
their products. Military buy their product from their lands and on well
good price than the market. All such bought agriculture products are
mainly used for military's own purposes.
>
> Energy
>
> Energy sector of Pakistan needs heavy investments at the moment. Now a
days, Pakistan facing almost 40% electricity shortages and declining
resources of GAS in the country. Now, instead we invite the monster
companies like Hubco from outside the country and provide them the
oppertunity to loot and grab more money from the poor people of
Pakistan. We see our military a light of hope, which will be saving us
from such monsters in the future. Morover, the so called foreign
investers, like Hubco transfer all their profits out of the country and
thus the country had face big outflows of money. Askari CNG, together
with all Askari projects, atleast keep their money inside the country
and reinvest their earnings back in the business. Thus more self
reliance, more job oppertunites, more economical activities etc etc. And
after all, a good portion of such businesses are allocated to welfare
projects.
>
> Medical
>
> As this so called article said by itself that the people prefer to go
to the Combined Military Hospitals (CMH) and Miitary Hospitals (MH). You
can understand by yourself the quality of services they had been given
in these hospitals. Additionally, not only military men but civilians
are also provided full care and charges are far less than any other
hospital in the country. Only a delivery section of Shifa International
Hospital charge up to 40,000 Rs. While the Military Hospital (MH) charge
only 15,000 Rs. Further consessions are available and the oppertunity of
free treatment in some exceptional cases. High tech medical equipments
are always available to these hospitals due to unlimited availability of
funds, whereas other hospitals are always found struggling for their own
survivals. And how such unlimited funds are always available??? Got to
thing about it.
>
> And for all other stupidities.
>
> Army related education institutions are ver rare by the way. And most
for their own purposes. However, many of them are always available to
civilians, if they want to use their services. Additionally, look at
what you quoted by yourself. More and more facilities for them. And how
that possible. Just because of unlimited availability of funds and where
those unlimited funds came from???
>
> CSDs, bakeries etc are primarily to provide subsidised products to
military men. And are not always available to general public. These
small setups and part of the welfare projects and not the business
projects. Beware from the propagandists. Security services companies are
very rare in Pakistan. Additionally, the employees of many security
companeis found in bank robberies and house lootings etc. Military
security company is well trusted and well established org. While other
companies are emerging faster than miltary security companies.
>
> Askari bank, Askari Leasing, Askari Information systems etc are all
part of Askari Welfare Trust. The aim and objectives include to increase
the funds available for the welfare projects. Where Pakistan is facing
huge dificits in balance of payments and huge outflow of money due to so
called foreign investers, military's business projects not only making
possible the availability of funds for their welfare projects but also
making huge contributions in naitonal economy, paying huge taxes,
allocating huge money for AWT.
>
> Pakistani military had never found in any kind of Sex, monetary and
drugs scandals in the world. Infect, in congo it was Indian Army, which
found in monetory and sex scandals.
>
> In all sectors, like cement, fertilizers, oil, sugar, security, gas
explorations etc. Pakistan is looking for huge investment. Instead we
always run behind the so called foreign investers, who loot our money
and transfer it back to their countries. If military or non-military is
willing to engage in any sector, we will always welcome it. This was
they not only make profit. But a good portion of this profit is
allocated for welfare purposes. Additionally, thousands jobs
oppertunities, huge contribution in GDP etc etc are all positively
welcomed in the country.
>
> And stop visiting such stupid websites, such as facistmilitary. Those
who own the pubs and those who found inside it are always considered as
the same.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Robin Khundkar
> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 9:48 PM
> Subject: [ALOCHONA] Pakistan Army (Pvt) Ltd. - Businessmen at their
Best
>
>
>
> A wet dream to another neighboring army in the region!
>
> Could it be? JUST KIDDING!!!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Welcome to the largest business stakeholder of Pakistan Our Companies
> Pakistan Army is the largest and Most Organized Business Organization
in Pakistan. Our Business ranges from Real Estate to Retail Stores
throughout Pakistan. At Pakistan Army we are always busy in expanding
our business line. Here is a brief introduction of our business lines.
>
> For us, Defence means Defence Housing Authority....
> nothing else.
>
> Real Estate 'Plot' is the word we love more than any other word. Real
Estate is most beloved business of us and we are known all around the
word for our Defence Housing Authority, Askari Villas and Cavalry
Housing Schemes. We have successfully introduced Defence Housing Schemes
in Lahore, Karachi and Islamabad and nowadays we are trying to conquer
new lands in Waziristan, Wana and Balochistan so we can develop new
phases of DHA there. Because in 'plots' we trust.
> Industrial
> Askari group and Fauji Group are known for our successful business
strategies. Remeber that Cement Scandal and Sugar Scandal? Then don't
forget our Askari Cement and Askari Sugar mills that played important
role in making cartels and the raising the prices of Cement and Sugar.
We love to earn billions overnight by these methods. Fauji Fertilizers
and Fauji Foods are our other ventures in the filed. Because we know a
little more than a million ways to increase our wealth.
> Banking
> We believe that all wealth is ours so here's our Askari Bank and
Askari Leasing so that we can get more out of it. We want our presence
in every business and we love banking simply because we love money. Our
banking sector is fast growing due to our strategies and our hand on the
nerves on government and people of Pakistan. besides Askari Commercial
bank, we also run Askari general Insurance Company. Money is all that
matters.
> Construction
> Here is our Frontier Works Organization in Construction Business.
Everyone must remember that Sher Shah Bypass in Karachi that collapsed
after 25 days of its inauguration. It was simply an example of our
expertise and our professionalism in the field of construction. before
this, we had already constructed Coastal Highway that flushed away with
heavy rains.
> Agriculture/Livestock/Dairy
> It is more often said that agriculture is not a profitable business in
Pakistan but we have proved it wrong. We are major stakeholder of
agricultural land in Pakistan and we have developed our
agricultural/Livestock/Dairy farms and its a highly profitable business
for us because we don't buy land, we just grab it so there are no
chances of any loss.
> Energy
> In the field of Energy we are present with Askari CNG Ltd, Fauji Power
Company, Foundation Gas and other companies. We also have oil
distribution company and terminals throughout Pakistan. So we are key
player in the field as we have largest facilities throughout Pakistan
thanks to our guns.
> Medical
> We have turned this profession into a highly profitable business as
well. We have our own hospitals throughout Pakistan and since we are
Pakistan Army, we receive best facilities from government and so bloody
civilians prefer our CMHs and they are always willing to spend a little
more so our pockets are always hefty. Besides our hospitals we also run
Askari Pharmaceuticals so we should not miss any opportunity to earn.
> Education
> How can we leave this field empty while it has become a highly
profitable business in Pakistan. So here we are with our Army Public
Schools, garrison Colleges and Bahria University. Since we have the
advantage to be Army so our educational projects have more facilities
that any other institution. So there are always more opportunities for
more and more and more profit.
> Information Technology
> Information Technology is also a fast growing business so we are
present here as well with our Askari Information Systems. At Air Weapon
Complex we utilize the funds from government and increase opportunities
for our IT business.
> Retail
> In retail sector we have introduced our CSD stores throughout Pakistan
so that no business should escape us. Besides that we have our own
bakeries, stationary and other specialty shops. More shops means more
business and more profit.
> Security
> We are providing security services to corporate sector. Our employees
are trained soldiers but they are not trained for national defence. For
us Defence means Defence housing Authority, nothing else. So we have
established a security agency to utilize the training and make more
profit.
> Recreational
> We have introduced Royal Palm Clubs, Golf Courses, resorts and Motels
all over Pakistan so if still there are some people in Pakistan who can
spend something on recreation, we are always there to grab it. Our golf
courses and resorts have state of the art facilities because we are
Pakistan Army. We also provide Aviation service for recreational
purposes since Pakistan Army owns helicopters and fighter planes but
these are not meant to use in national Defence so why not enjoy and earn
profit? So we have Askari Aviation Services.
> Human Trade
> It is our unique business and after 9/11 we have turned into a highly
sophisticated business line. We supply prisoners for Guantanamo and
other prisons. We also supply suspected terrorists bodies whenever US
president needs it to get support from his people. We have been
supplying prisoners for just $5000 per person and we earned billions as
stated by our CEO in his world famous book. We can supply human bodies
alive or dead as per the requirements of President of United State of
America.
> Services to Smugglers
> We recently earned international fame for our services to gold
smugglers in Congo. Beside helping them in smuggling gold, we also
provided them with necessary weapons. In Past we have proved ourselves
in narcotics smuggling field during Afghan War of 1980s.
> Other Businesses
> Everything is a business according to us so we find our ways to make
profit out of everything. Like in Disaster management when billions of
rupees are collected from donors, we are always there to get our due
share. Recently when an earthquake hit Pakistan's northern areas, we
collected billions or rupees and still nation is surprised that how did
we manage to spend this money while even after two years, people are
living without any relief.
> Future Plans
> It is our ambition to take over every business that exists in the
world so in near future we are launching our Askari Beauty Parlours,
Askari Fashion Stores, Fauji Casinos and Bars, Defence Escort Services
and much much more. In short life is all about money and money belongs
to us.
>
> On the right side of this page you will find an incomplete list of our
companies. It's just an incomplete list. We have many many more ventures
we can't even keep records like many commercial complexes in DHA and
resorts, motels and clubs. Our business range is wider than your
imagination.
>
>
> Mega Projects
> a.. DHA Islamabad
> Most luxurious and expenssive housing scheme in the capital.
> Details
> b.. DHA
> Most valuable and luxuries housing scheme in Lahore.
> Details
> c.. DHA
> Karachi's premium and most expenssive housing scheme.
> Details
>
> Big Eaters
> a.. Frontier Works Organization
> (Pakistan's largest construction contractor and toll collector
company)
> Details
> b.. National Logistics Cell
> (Largest logistics company of Pakistan, also deals in Construction,
Toll and Industrial)
> Details
> c.. Air Weapon Complex
> Deals in weapons and IT/Telecom equipments, Also provide services to
corporate and manufacturing sector
> Details
>
> Askari Group (AWT)
> a.. Askari Bank Limited
> b.. Askari Leasing Limited
> c.. Askari General Insurance Company Limited
> d.. Askari Cement Limited
> e.. Askari Aviation (Pvt.) Limited
> f.. Mobil Askari Lubricants Limited
> g.. Askari Guards (Pvt.) Limited
> h.. Askari Information Systems Limited
> i.. Askari Pharmaceuticals
> j.. Askari Sugar Mills
> k.. Askari Farms and Seeds
> l.. Askari CNG
> m.. Askari Shoe Project
> n.. Askari Woolen Mills
> o.. Askari College for Entrepreneurs
> p.. Askari Real Estate
>
> Details
> Fauji Foundation
> a.. Fauji Fertilizer Company Limited
> b.. Fauji Fertilizer Bin Qasim Limited
> c.. Fauji Cement Company Limited
> d.. Fauji Kabirwala Power Company Limited
> e.. Fauji Oil Terminal & Distribution Company Limited
> f.. Mari Gas Company Limited
> g.. Foundation Gas
> h.. Fauji Sugar Mills, Sangla Hill
> i.. Fauji Cereals Fauji Corn Complex
> j.. Foundation Securities (Pvt) Limited
> k.. Fauji Overseas Employment Services
> l.. Fauji Security Services (Pvt) Limited
>
> Details
> Shaheen Foundation
> a.. Shaheen Airport Services
> b.. Shaheen Air Cargo
> c.. Shaheen School Systems
> d.. Shaheen Complex Lahore
> e.. Shaheen Complex Karachi
> f.. Shaheen Housing Scheme Projects
> g.. Ensign Communique
> h.. InfoSpan Pakistan
> i.. Shaheen Aero Traders
> j.. Shaheen Insurance
> k.. Shaheen Knitwear
> l.. Shaheen Medical Services
> m.. Shaheen Rent A Car
> n.. Shaheen Fuel Filling Stations
>
> Details
> Bahria Foundation
> a.. Bahria University Karachi
> b.. Bahria University Islamabad
> c.. Bahria Commercial Complexes Karachi
> d.. Bahria Maritime Services
> e.. Bahria Shipping & harbour Services
> f.. Marine Salvage Operation Services
> g.. Marine manpower Services
> h.. Marine Survey Services
> i.. Harbour Channel Security Services
> j.. Aviation Support Services
> k.. Bahria School Systems
> l.. Bahria Boat Building & Engineering
> m.. Bahria Paints
> n.. Bahria Security Systems and Services
> o.. Bahria Travel Agency
> p.. Bahria Recruiting Agency
> q.. Bahria Pharmacy
> r.. Falah Trading Agency
> s.. Bahria Bread Manufacturing
> t.. Bahria Childcare Centres
>
> Details
>
>
>
>
> .
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> *´¨)
> ¸.·´¸.·*´¨) ¸.·*¨)
> (¸.·´ (¸.·` * Mun!M
>
> Sigmund Freud - "Love and work are the cornerstones of our humanness."
>







--
"Sustha thakon, nirapade thakon ebong valo thakon"

Shuvechhante,

Shafiqur Rahman Bhuiyan (ANU)
NEW ZEALAND.

Phone: 00-64-9-828 2435 (Res), 00-64-0274  500 277 (mobile)
E-mail: srbanunz@gmail.com

N.B.: If any one is offended by content of this e-mail, please ignore & delete this e-mail. I also request you to inform me by an e- mail - to delete your name from my contact list.
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